A General Delema, need some feedback.

Sly3

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I'd like to come forward and say I have been using the forum since 2014, I first joined initial training in 2015 and only made it to week 22 before I made the worst decision of my life.

I wasn’t ready for what was to come in RT I was 20, never once experienced a work place or enviroment quite like RT before it was a massive shock to begin with, but gradually I got better but as everything I slipped through the net at normandy put on an extra stone and a half and comtuined through to week 22 with a burden of over weight power to weight ratio and feel behind.

Knwoing this lingured in the back of my mind and kept putting the doubt in my mind, as came hell week, I knew i wasnt well I had a fever and constant stress put a burden on my lungs I couldn't breathe and picking up smoking again did not help me in the slightest. I went to the med bay but they said I was fine ( without telling me they found Something they couldnt diagnose) so I left with the training team pushing me towards leaving even though it wasn't the right decision.

So here I am 3 years later still trying to get an actual diagnosis from the NHS and they cannot find a single thing, I have been made PMU for all services but in truth I have no issues with fitness or fatigue. I’ve had numerous tests on my heart from ECG’S to Stress Tests on treadmil and now I face a tube going down my throat to find a better reading, being told it was an enlarged artery to a microscopic hole in my heart to I can't find anything I hope to be told im completely healthy as the obsession to finish what I started and commit to something bigger than myself is breaking me.

There is nothing I want more than to achieve a Green Lid constantly keeping me up at night for the past 3 years I've witheld on making this sob letter but now I would like some feed back how do I go about this, how do I continue if I get good results persaude to the medical Unit that I am fit to serve. It's a shot in the darl but I'd like some help and a kick up the backend cause I'm fed up.

Any further details you wish to ask please feel free.

Thank you , Sly3
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Sorry to hear of the circumstances.

What was the specific witten reason for making you pmu all services?
 

Sly3

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The specific reason at the time, was an unknown diagnosis taken back at med bay, I went to re-apply for the army back in 2016 thinking the RM wasn't for me to be told, look something wrong with you you can't join till you find out what it is so over the course of a year I went down the NHS to figure out what it was.

And I was told it was a patent foramen ovale which basically was a tiny hole that didn’t close up when I was born. But on further analysis it was deemed not life threatening or a risk, so I put my application through only to hear the Army doctors say that with the condition they couldn’t take the risk of putting me through training. So I thought well that’s that but I wasn’t sold as my consultant said it wouldn’t be an issue.

Going ahead a few years to 2017 I put in for a new application to the RM, I consulted my representative on the situation to conduct further testing but he couldn’t find a thing wrong with me so eyebrows started rasing and talks of an enlarged artery came into question so further talks about more tests and checks came about to present day as I come closer to another test which involves a tube down my throat to do some whacky science.

At this point no one knows what’s going on, as to them I’m fit and healthy for my age, and to the medical unit for the applications are hesitant on my current situation but without clear proof of what it could be based on a misdiagnosis.

I just want a flat out answer with a detailed document saying your broken sorry pal. Otherwise I won’t rest till I know I’ll fight this appeal !
 

Ninja_Stoker

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In short, have you applied to rejoin the Royal Marines since first leaving?

If so, what did your medical rejection letter say?
 

Sly3

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I have reapplied but it’s timed out and had to be withdrawn, my advisor set me on the path to re apply, appeal and document as much evidence as I could I know the basics, a training plan and having a PT document my efforts. Unfortunately I can’t do a thing till the NHS pull their fingers out.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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The trouble with going through the NHS is the are focused and funded to provide primary healthcare rather than prioritise occupational health requests not needing treatment.

It maybe worth making enquiries about the cost of a private referral for a consultant in the relevant area of expertise to produce the evidence you require.
 

Sly3

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I’ve thought about the route but the costs involved are daunting, but it’s my last resort. I’m awaiting their response the NHS might be able to come up with answer but I doubt it’ll be enough.
 

Chelonian

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The specific reason at the time, was an unknown diagnosis taken back at med bay,

I'm not a medical professional nor a Careers Adviser but just for clarity:

Presumably you opted to leave Royal Marines training but you were not actually medically discharged?

And the subsequent medical issues only formally became apparent when you attended your Army medical examination?

One problem is that if a cardiac irregularity (pauses, murmurs, flutters, etc.) is detected during a med exam it can be difficult to prove that it is harmless, mainly because the episode might not repeat itself even if a cardiac recording is taken over the period of a week.

As Ninja suggests, it might be a good idea to have a chat with your GP about private options and see where that takes you. You will then be able to make a judgement based on probable cost.
 

Geespt

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I’ve thought about the route but the costs involved are daunting...

Have you contacted Capita? They do all the medical side of the application, but my friend who’s currently applying needed a private referrel, Capita split the cost with my friend to help with costs. Just an idea!
 

Ninja_Stoker

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It is a difficult call with regard funding.

If an employer requires qualified evidence to ensure the individual is not an increased risk to their own general wellbeing, then the "who pays?" connundrum boils down to whether the taxpayer funds it or the person seeking employment in a particular job invests in their own future.

On a positive note, we are struggling to recruit Royal Marines in adequate numbers at present and possibly Capita are worth an ask.

The Corps are viewed as a priority recruiting target at present. CGRM has clearly stated the Corps is on a "war footing" with regard regruitment as one of 14 "Op Urgent" shortage category branches of the Naval Service.

Perhaps @RMDO operating from the Corps Colonel's office may be able to assist?
 

ajc81

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I do have a medical background and as @Chelonian says it is very difficult to completely confirm that you will not have any cardiovascular anomalies in future. If there has previously been any concern regarding your cardiac output then the best they can do is confirm that, at the time of testing you had no underlying issues. You may struggle to find someone who will say that you are completely fine to embark on your full training, only because if you do have an episode or a cardiac arrest and this then results in your death, an inquiry will follow then this gets more complicated. Unfortunately we live in a world of litigation and healthcare providers are now much more careful of the implications upon diagnosis (blame all these injury/compensation companies, some claims are completely valid but a lot aren’t). If you think of some professional athletes/footballers etc, they have many tests and there are still some that have unfortunately had cardiac arrests and lost their lives. I know this doesn’t actually help your case as an individual, but hopefully it goes towards understanding why it’s so difficult to get definitive answers. Fingers crossed you get there.
 

Sly3

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Have you contacted Capita? They do all the medical side of the application, but my friend who’s currently applying needed a private referrel, Capita split the cost with my friend to help with costs. Just an idea!

I am awaiting the full details of my tests with the NHS before I go down that route.
 

Sly3

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It is a difficult call with regard funding.

If an employer requires qualified evidence to ensure the individual is not an increased risk to their own general wellbeing, then the "who pays?" connundrum boils down to whether the taxpayer funds it or the person seeking employment in a particular job invests in their own future.

On a positive note, we are struggling to recruit Royal Marines in adequate numbers at present and possibly Capita are worth an ask.

The Corps are viewed as a priority recruiting target at present. CGRM has clearly stated the Corps is on a "war footing" with regard regruitment as one of 14 "Op Urgent" shortage category branches of the Naval Service.

Perhaps @RMDO operating from the Corps Colonel's office may be able to assist?

With regards to recruitment I felt that capita could have pulled thier finger out on the matter, but saying that if I had all the conclusive evidence, i’d be able to make an appeal worth taking into consideration. Bearing in mind I've had money already invested into me while I initially joined it's a no brainer really.

If @RMDO can provide any help would be greatly appreciated as I have genuine desire to re-join.
 

Sly3

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I do have a medical background and as @Chelonian says it is very difficult to completely confirm that you will not have any cardiovascular anomalies in future. If there has previously been any concern regarding your cardiac output then the best they can do is confirm that, at the time of testing you had no underlying issues. You may struggle to find someone who will say that you are completely fine to embark on your full training, only because if you do have an episode or a cardiac arrest and this then results in your death, an inquiry will follow then this gets more complicated. Unfortunately we live in a world of litigation and healthcare providers are now much more careful of the implications upon diagnosis (blame all these injury/compensation companies, some claims are completely valid but a lot aren’t). If you think of some professional athletes/footballers etc, they have many tests and there are still some that have unfortunately had cardiac arrests and lost their lives. I know this doesn’t actually help your case as an individual, but hopefully it goes towards understanding why it’s so difficult to get definitive answers. Fingers crossed you get there.

Thank you for your insight, I understand the implications that the medical professionals are debating when it comes to the matter. I just feel I need to find the definitive answers, with all the required information from the respected members that are looking into my case give me the all clear I couldn't imagine why a denial could happen.

And I'm not one to seek compensation when I knew what I was getting involved in lets face it RM training isn't a doodle it'll bring out the slightest abnormalitys in every normal bloke that thought they were 100%

But in all honesty, I am taking everything with a pinch of salt if I cannot rejoin then I'll have to face the reality of the situation.
 

Zandvoort10

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The Corps are viewed as a priority recruiting target at present. CGRM has clearly stated the Corps is on a "war footing" with regard regruitment as one of 14 "Op Urgent" shortage category branches of the Naval Service.

Interesting this part. Is this true for both Officers and OR you find?
 

ajc81

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Thank you for your insight, I understand the implications that the medical professionals are debating when it comes to the matter. I just feel I need to find the definitive answers, with all the required information from the respected members that are looking into my case give me the all clear I couldn't imagine why a denial could happen.

And I'm not one to seek compensation when I knew what I was getting involved in lets face it RM training isn't a doodle it'll bring out the slightest abnormalitys in every normal bloke that thought they were 100%

But in all honesty, I am taking everything with a pinch of salt if I cannot rejoin then I'll have to face the reality of the situation.
To be honest most of us ordinary folk don’t abuse the system and claim, unfortunately the ones that do have ruined it for the rest of us. I’ve worked in operating theatres for 20 years and the changes have been unbelievable.
I really do hope you get it all sorted, best of luck
 

Sly3

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To be honest most of us ordinary folk don’t abuse the system and claim, unfortunately the ones that do have ruined it for the rest of us. I’ve worked in operating theatres for 20 years and the changes have been unbelievable.
I really do hope you get it all sorted, best of luck

The amount of hate I have for them wronguns is unreal, genuine cases being overlooked cause of one biff ! Boils my blood. But such is life ‍♂️

I hope to get it cracked sooner rather than later.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Interesting this part. Is this true for both Officers and OR you find?
Just Other Ranks.

In the last fifteen years there's always been a surplus of successful RMYO contenders. Equally, the Corps flaps every year because they always seem to require a large surplus from which they select the best. Some may say it would be more logic to simply raise the required AIB score and allocate "first pass the post" with a reserve pool of 'near misses' to cover the contingency of a genuine shortfall.
 

TangoWhisky

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And I was told it was a patent foramen ovale which basically was a tiny hole that didn’t close up when I was born. But on further analysis it was deemed not life threatening or a risk, so I put my application through only to hear the Army doctors say that with the condition they couldn’t take the risk of putting me through training. So I thought well that’s that but I wasn’t sold as my consultant said it wouldn’t be an issue.
I know this will be a question for medics, but it's worth weighing up any potential routes.

I too was born with this condition. However, at 11 months I had corrective key hole surgery which was 100% successful. I've since had full heart health and I have letters from leading cardiologists approving any and all activities, with specific reference to aspirations to join the RMs.

With a few years until I put my application in, what should else should I be doing to prepare for an inevitable medical appeal?

Cheers,
TW
 

Ninja_Stoker

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I know this will be a question for medics, but it's worth weighing up any potential routes.

I too was born with this condition. However, at 11 months I had corrective key hole surgery which was 100% successful. I've since had full heart health and I have letters from leading cardiologists approving any and all activities, with specific reference to aspirations to join the RMs.

With a few years until I put my application in, what should else should I be doing to prepare for an inevitable medical appeal?

Cheers,
TW
Firstly, if you are not already doing so, commence a detailed training diary.

Secondly, take a copy of your medical notes and send a written query via your local AFCO, including copies of all your evidence & the training diary.....THIS YEAR.

The written query should be something along the lines of:

"SEMC
C/0 AFCO Address
Your Full postal address.
ddmmyyyy

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference: Your Full Name and date of birth ddmmyyyy

I am currently in fulltime education/work aiming to join the Royal Marines as a Young Officer in September 2020.

I write to request my query regarding future medical suitability for service in respect of a successful surgical procedure I underwent in ddmmyyyy.

It is requested the query is forwarded for review by the Service Entry Medical Cell together with the enclosed comprehensive medical notes, post op ECG and current training diary so that I may have definitive guidance ahead of submitting my formal application toward the end of 2019.

Many thanks in anticipation of a positive written response.

Yours Faithfully,

TW"
 
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