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Army Medical issues - discussion.

Discussion in 'Current & Military Affairs Discussion Forum.' started by PoS, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. PoS

    PoS New Member

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    Look, I've been saying mental illness and injuries are the same, and you're right, I went to sleep with the thought that if I truly believe that, then I must also accept that, just as some physical afflictions may make one unsuitable for service, so must some mental injuries.

    Do I have deep deep rooted issue that I need resolve before I could pursue this? Absolutely, but I would hold that I am confident that they can be resolved, and whatever path I am to set out on, resolving them is my first priority.

    @PotentialToff

    I don't think I'm your typical officer material, I'm emotional, I'm candid, and I have a greater understanding of history and am willing to exile parts of my personality not compatible with service.

    But I would say, the issues I have gone through, would to myself suggest a reduced risk of that, I'd be letting not only the MoD, the service, and my comrades down, but also, my sisters (other LGBT people) which I would consider would have a further discouraging effect in that scenario.

    I will also note, I do respond well to external stress, and keep my head in times of stress that is external, the internal stress is another thing, and is based on identity issues of gender and others, and if when these are resolved, I'm hoping I can deal with it better, and the understanding of how personal perspective, and thought processes affect people, might even constitute a strength, as if I can recognise and resolve that with myself, i might be able to assist other in doing so, and no doubt that is something that can occur in a high stress environment.

    That's a risk, knowing me, it won't occur, but it is something that needs to be considered, but diversity is important, not for the sake of it, but because it provides a range of issues and experiences that an organisation can collectively draw from

    ---

    My concern is this, lets do this as analogy, say I have back pain for more than six weeks, according to the guidance this is a section 8, lets say I have this for over a year and then it transpires it was from an embedded nail found after an x-ray. This would make this six week limit somewhat arbitrary.

    My situation is somewhat similar to that, I need help to resolve the issues I have, absolutely, but it's taken over a year for me to even get a consolation, and then I was referred to a specialist service, which gave me an appointment for next month six months ago, the A.D.s and Betas, are much like pain meds to manage the symptoms, the cause hasn't been treated.

    Now the issues I have might very well necessitate that I don't follow this path,regardless of that it's not about what I want, it's about what the army needs.

    My desire is to serve, and I am not opposed to doing so in the forces civilian counterpart the MoD.

    In addition, I'd like to express my gratitude over the way you've all handled this.

    P.s. in addition to this thread I'd like to make one about clarifying some of the language in the links provided and the intent of that guidance if this would be permissible?
     
  2. C

    C Guest

    Maybe I'm reading this wrong PoS, there's a lot of text to go through, but it sounds to me your pinning your hopes on appealing against the medical standards set.

    From what I've seen on here when people have had issues at the medical stage they're told they can appeal against the diagnosis if they feel that they've been wrongly diagnosed by going through their GP or whatever medical professional diagnosed the problem, they cannot appeal against the standards claiming or claim there's mitigating circumstances that make their failing to meet the medical standard irrelevant.

    In short the medical standards are set in stone it seems and unfortunately for you, as is the case for many others, your past circumstances will rule you out, but the only way to know for certain is speak with your AFCO.
     
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  3. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Mental and Phyisical injuries are not the same. Not in the slightest. You can mend a broken bone. It's not as simple as mending your mind. It takes complicated pyscological treatment and therapy to even get the smallest amount of reward.

    You can't just exile parts of you're personality, you can't just decide what your going to think or how your going to react, just because you think you can. It really shows an aspect of naivety towards combat and mental health.

    LGBT people are just people. Why do people insist of driving a wedge and making a big deal about LGBT? You not getting a job with the Forces doesn't mean you have let anyone in the LGBT down. It's just the way it is.

    "external stress" has a knock on effect to "internal stress" as you put it. You can't deal with "external" stress if you aren't able to deal with your "internal stress". There are lads who have killed themselves with that kind of naive thinking. Lads that are far more settled and have had far less "internal stress" that you have alluded do. Besides, you nor I are qualified to make that judgment.

    And again a complex pyscological issue isn't solved over night. You won't suddenly find you don't have "internal stress" anymore. And in fact there's studies and reports to prove that even after full transition there's a knock on effect of mental health issues.

    You, nor I are not qualified to assist anyone in doing anything as drastic as dealing and self diagnosing or self treating any pyscological disorder. Simple as. Despite what you read on Tumblr.

    Diversity is not important. Combat effectiveness is. And we should not compromise Combat Effectivness for diversity or someone's hurt feelings. That's what gets people killed. People end up *text deleted*ing dead.

    Mental health isn't as simple as "removing the nail". And just because you remove the nail doesn't mean there won't be complications, infections, muscle mobility, knock on complications from inability to use your back muscle effectively. Your back will be weakened and will need rehabbed and treated correctly. By medical professionals.

    It won't suddenly be a miracle after the cause has been treated. It's not that simple.

    I wanted to be a paramedic when I left, I didn't meet the criteria, so I just got on with my life and went for a different job I met the criteria too.

    End of the day mate, no one here is qualified to give you an answer, this isn't Tumblr. Seek the professional answer, then deal with the outcome you are given.
     
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  4. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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  5. PoS

    PoS New Member

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    I was, not so much now, I was under the impression it's the initial medical was simply a check-box affair automatically dealt with, rather than reviews, it seems this is not the case, and as such there would be no need to appeal, the ME should feel confident in passing a candidate according to the guidance, and we must trust their experience.

    I feel the standards are, too by the letter, rather than intent, that said, I don't know if I have depression or anxiety, the only one who can say for sure is a shrink, and I am yet to see one, but I think the standards might be flexible enough to accommodate my situation with a deferral, and decide I am suitable, not that that mean I'll be progressing past that my any means! Better candidates are chosen first, this is how the world works, and probably as it should!

    @threadpidegonsalpha

    Let me clarify again,

    I mean diversity can result in combat effectiveness, if we have muslim servicemen, they are better placed to understand motivations of the majority populace of afghanistan, if we have servicemen from low income backgrounds, they would be well placed to understand the suffering of people who had lost their homes in the haitian disaster, I didn't mean for it's own sake, I just mean that it's a good idea not to only recruit one type of candidate, although all must be able to undertake the primary duties of an armed force.

    You can exile parts of your personality, not over night, but you can reprimand yourself should you find you'e serving yourself interest, and encourage yourself to be more charitable, I used to be rather selfish, and somewhat arrogant, i'm glad to say, that I eliminated both these qualities.

    I don't mean to say LGBT people are above any other group of people, but I am saying that if I did something like you suggested, certain blue top tabloids would use it to bash people I identify with, just as they would if I was of polish or middle-eastern decent.

    You're right, it does have a knock on effect, but I would need to resolve my internal issues before I could confidently expose myself to external ones, the problem isn't that I have internal stress, it more, I don't have the tools or the methodology to deal with it in a safe or indeed productive way, this is however something I can learn.

    You're right it's not going to be solved over-night at all, but it can be solved, ad I thin it would be to the detriment of the forces if the size of a waiting list, had an effect on who was considered, we might get this done in a year after next month when I see someone, which is a two year deferment, I didn't mean to say it was an easy fix, but to be fair, a nail embedded in your spine is a very long process due to the sensitivity and vital components of the CNS there, needing surgery and years of phiso to fix, i'm sorry, I didn't create a good picture for you.

    I will read that article, and I will of course get back to you, please understand although we are debating this, I find your insight more valuable than I can express.
     
  6. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    They need to be. That's the whole point. Usually because they have learnt a lesson somewhere down the line. Intention doesn't even come into it. Someone with depression might not intend to kill themselves, but when they are suffering enough they may well do.

    If you can't meet the require criteria then you are unable to meet the required standards and shouldn't be allowed to join. It's simple. It's a rule that has undoubtably saved lives.

    Mate, that itself sounds like a mental health issue. We aren't talking about something as simple as "being Less selfish" we are talking about rewiring millions of years of biological evolution. I am sorry but I don't buy into the Hormonal imbalance in the womb theory.

    Depends what paper you read. Depends on the article. And depends on the situation. Some people are automatically offended by any article that might say anything against a group of people or sexuality, despite being factual.

    Is help not available on the NHS? Women can get breast enlargements for free on the NHS surely a mental health issue can be dealt with.

    Your insight is interesting as well, I have been wanting to debate the issue of transgender for sometime now. As I don't buy into the usual theory behind it nor do I buy into the "normalising" of it. Hopefully we can engage in a good old debate.
     
  7. PoS

    PoS New Member

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    Although biased, reactionary, frankly anti-liberty, and somewhat insulting in terminology, other than there will be people who regret any change;

    I don't think that article is relevant to me, I agree that in 10-20% of cases a transition is inadvisable, but I'll summarize as my outlook thus:

    Natures is natural, natural is inefficient, lets play around with it, I suspect you'll disagree here, but that's a valid opinion.

    Gender is a social construct although based entirely on physical sex, with science we can progress past the limitations of our physical form and that social augmentation is the best way to achieve this becoming acceptable to our society.

    The more we act in a certain way, the more likely nature will adapt us to our purpose, if we let women be fighters, their bodies will, in mellennia become more suited to it.

    For myself, I don't feel the need to identify with any gender, and if I'm being more honest, this is more a reaction to how others view me, and removing traits my body has that are problematic to me than to effect a massive life change, I'll do what I damn please in my personal affairs so long as I'm doing it on my own and not requiring co-operation with others.

    :)

    With that said, I don't expect as some more foolish trans people, expect for this to solve all my issues, or even half of them, but won't regret this decision, maybe I'll choose to change it, probably not, but I see this more as body modification than as some massive pheonixesc transformation, we are human, we are not made by a god, we made the gods, and we can become them, science will light the way.

    So long as you are respectful and understand that your personal opinion as though as valid is as mine, should not apply to others, and that everyone should be treated as they desire and be allowed their own agency and control over themselves and others, then I am more than happy to discuss it with you!

    I will say, help is available with the mental health issues on the NHS, but the waiting list is very long, and it takes a long time.

    Furthermore I'll say this, is having to wait this long is something the army fears, then I will humbly accept it, but I'm not sure it is, but we'll discuss that in the other thread as it may be covered in the guidance, and i mena the intent of the MoD not of a personal individual.

    P.s.

    Tumblrs great for support, but I'd never take health advice from there! o_O
     
  8. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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    Yes you can be told why you have been made PMU (P8)
    http://www.royalmarines.uk/threads/been-made-pmu.92844/#post-579450
    Yeah just shoot one of them a PM and I'm sure they'll get back to you although I'd be inclined to say they'd say the same thing that all of us have said "Only the medical Examiner is medically qualified to categorize you medically fit or unfit for service" and to basically get a medical done.
     
  9. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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    Well then surely you could go to your GP explain the situation that you do not think you have depression/anxiety but Gender Disphoria and get the diagnosis changed on your medical records i.e. appealing the diagnosis not the medical standards. Although this may be a long shot since you've been receiving treatment for so long I don't know I think you'll have to 1) go see your GP about it (maybe print of the link above and bring it, see what he/she thinks) then 2) go to your AFCO get your BARB done and then have your medical done then see what happens and get back to us. Realistically though it's not looking good.
     
  10. PoS

    PoS New Member

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    "Probably not..." is still an improvement over "Hell No!!" :P which is what I was initially expecting.

    I do have anxiety, but it very based on the aspect of socialising, so it might come under Phobic Anxiety Disorder (F40) for which the outlook I think would be quite fair, and the depression might be "normal" adjustment disorder of the trans thing, which understandably would take more than six months to sort, my symptoms are the same regardless, however I wouldn't get my GP to change it, as I feel this might be dishonest, I've been with him since birth so I'd think he'd do whatever he thought was best for me, he has before, but I will discuss it with the CPNs at the appointment I have been given next month, as they are better qualified to speak to what these symptoms might mean, and if I'm just rubbish at dealing with relationship break up, + job loss +homelessness + gender dysphoria.

    I'm not really ready to join, I'm halfway through uni, even if I did pass, I couldn't join until the end of this educational year, and given how unlikely this is to start off with, I'd rather not have a further black mark against my name if I pass and decline to proceed, or fail under PMU, (assuming I don't fail outright!) if it can be merely delayed on my side, or if they won't see it as negative, I'm 100% up for trying to see what happens, but I would need assurances to that first.

    I'll shoot out those PM's tonight, thanks. :)
     
  11. PotentialToff

    PotentialToff Member

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    You're aware that to be an officer it involves a lot of public speaking, addressing large groups through presentation and completing group tasks and one of the main things you're being assessed on is confidence.
     
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  12. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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    Ah yeah do finish your uni first before you apply haha but I think having a good long chat with your GP about what your options are at your earliest convenience is a good idea also changing your diagnosis isn't necessarily dishonest if you believe your depression is a symptom of a larger issue i.e. Gender Disphoria. I mean I'm pretty sure there are guys on here who had depression taken off their medical records (or appealed a PMU based on depression) on the fact that they believed it was actually grief/loss they were feeling after family/life trauma.
    Good luck!
     
  13. PoS

    PoS New Member

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    Yah, but they're not going to bellow "tranny" at me or try and beat me up over it, and if they do, it's not going to affect my prospects of gaining a commission. :) I worry about being exposed, because i don't have the confidence in myself to "pass", or that I can win if it comes to a confrontation without receiving an injury that may mean applying is impossible physically, (I live in the knife capital of the world so getting shanked is a real possibility) honestly its more like having "Yips" overly worrying, it's been settling down though. I'm confident in my abilities mentally, and I honestly enjoy public speaking (although I tend to get a bit excitable and this will need to be addressed, it is a positive problem not a negative one), I often give guest talks at our local history group, mainly about the Napoleonic wars, and I re-enact and airsoft and game all of which require group activities, its more fear of being attacked before I am physically capable of defending myself, and only then, when I'm alone and outwith people who can be traced, the strength required for serving should resolve it, I lack confidence in this phase of my life, feeble, recognisably feminine but obviously "packing", I'd like to think I can deal with it alone if I had to, I have meds for it, but I rarely need to take them, other than the month or two where I was all like: "oh god I'm alone I'll never find someone else" and kept hounding my ex for answers, honestly other than the fact my heart feels like it's going to jump out my chest which is, unpleasant, it's nothing that get's in the way, it makes boring experiences feel unpleasant, little more.


    Ill deffo speak with him then, I don't know what this is and frankly, we only discussed enough to stabilize my mood, anything else was left upto the CPNs who took their damn time. :)
     
  14. REX13

    REX13 New Member

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    PoS, as a RMO candidate who passed POC & AIB but didn't make the batch and therefore has also started an Army app and has briefing in 18 days, my advice is the following:

    -Put your online apps in as a start. Both the Navy and Army selection processes are painfully long to say the least and you never know when the next hick-up will occur.

    -Stay fit. Run, work on all round body strength, get your current affairs and SDT/psychometric crap up-to-date.

    -If you think you need to see a psychologist... then do so.

    -If you need to speak to an AFCO... then do that too. That's what they are there for.

    -Becoming an officer in the forces is a challenging role.. the last thing you need is a personal mental conflict going on, making the whole process that much more challenging. People will be relying on YOU and looking for your leadership. If you are not confident in yourself (for whatever reason) you will not make a good leader, end of.

    All in all though, good luck. You have obviously tried to think this career path through and even though you have some hurdles (however big) to get over, it is not impossible.

    P.S. - Get your writing style more down to the point! After reading some of your previous pieces I truly believe you will have your troop/platoon looking at you with googly eyes if you gave your orders in a similar manner! :P
     
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  15. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    He writes like its Tumblr. And I thought my articulation was bad!
     
  16. C30

    C30 Member

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    Whens the autobiography coming out? Although I can't say I've enjoyed the three chapter taster so far... rather difficult to digest.

    I'm offended. How could you possibly assume ones gender :mad:
     
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  17. Troska

    Troska Member

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    Shakespere is easier to digest :)
     
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  18. Ballista

    Ballista Member

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    Go and see a counsellor OP. This forum isn't for your personal blog posts and nor is it populated by qualified psychologists.
     
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  19. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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    "Brevity is the soul of wit." - William Shakespeare's Hamlet
     
  20. Ryko

    Ryko Member

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    Since brevity is the soul of wit,
    And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
    I will be brief. Your noble son is mad.

    Fitting quote @BoxSwallow