Carb cycling ,another weight loss based thread (long)

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stokey_14

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Found this on another forum, not my words but a good read for anyone wanting to carb cycle and lose weight.

There has been a lot of lads wanting to lose weight (my self included) on here, maybe that due to it being the summer and people want to look good on holiday etc maybe they just want a better power to weight ratio or maybe there just plain fat.

Either way who can knock them? this is quite a length post but if you?re serious about your fat loss goal, with out wishing to sacrifice performance it?s worth your time.

It is written with bodybuilders in mind, but hey these guys now a thing or two about leaning out and rest assured performance athlete do use carb cycling.

It also does not hand you a one size fits all plan, it requires personal customisation and a bit of playing around. However once you find a plan that works you?ll be golden. Heck after a good while trying this out the more in-tune ones among us can even play it by ear though I don?t suggest this from the outset.

Found this whilst trawling through the net it is a very good approach and very close to the carb cycling that i do....
it was written by IronAddict...

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Most of the people that come to me seeking personal training advice have their number one priority listed as dropping bodyfat. And when I say most, I am talking about 75-80%. The sad part is a big percentage of those people were NOT fat when they started bodybuilding. Yes, they got that way trying to ?bulk up?. I guess you can say they were successful at ?bulking? if you consider fat to be ?bulk?. What they should have been doing is ?muscling up?. That is rarely done until the trainee is quite experienced. The yo-yo approach can work well if you are blessed with a great metabolism??few are. Had they done it right they wouldn?t be in that situation. But, past mistakes are best left in the past. This article is about how to leave those mistakes in the past where they belong, and give you some general guidelines about timed-carb dieting, which I FIRMELY believe is the best approach to dropping the bodyfat while at a bare minimum retaining 100% of your muscle mass, and in the VAST majority of cases, adding some muscle and lots of strength while shedding the unwanted fat.

Before I outline the timed carb strategy, I am going to go over the typical types of diets followed by those in search of their abs, and talk about the pros and cons of each technique. Lets get started!

Low calorie, low fat diets
This is probably the #1 approach taken by those that have taken the plunge into the realm of dieting and it also happens to be the #1 reason many are afraid to diet. Why are they afraid? Because past experience has taught them that when dieting, they lose hard-earned muscle. And with this type of diet you can EXPECT at least a 50/50 muscle to fat loss ratio! YES! You lose 10 lbs and at LEAST 5 is usually muscle! Why? You first need to understand a bit about bodyfat metabolism. Your body stores bodyfat as ?reserve fuel? in case of famine. Which is not much of a problem in today?s world in industrialized countries. OK, now you?re fat and you decide to drop it using this approach. The problem is, that when carbs are present, the fat burning pathways, which are driven by an enzymatic process are SHUT-DOWN, because carbs produce the release of insulin in your system, and insulin stops the enzymatic processes that allows you to burn bodyfat as a fuel source.

But wait! Calories are too low to fuel basal metabolism, and since your body can?t burn fat what is left? Ahhhh, you guessed it! Protein! Where does this protein come from? Well first your body will convert the recently ingested protein to glucose, but that still doesn?t cover daily caloric demands. So what next? Yup, your body starts catabolizing it?s own muscle to use as a fuel source, and?..you LOSE!

ISO-Caloric Diets
This is the diet made famous by Barry Sears of the ?Zone Diet? fame. The idea here is to make the diet as balanced between protein/carbs/fats as possible and reduce insulin secretion as much as possible. These types of diets do quite a bit better at holding onto muscle while beating down the fat than low-cal, low-fat diets, but once caloric levels get low enough to drop bodyfat levels at a reasonable rate, you will still be chewing up a bunch of muscle unless on a LOT of gear, and you won?t really be on an ISO ratio if you are going to be getting enough protein to build/maintain muscle. These types of diets (with additional protein skewing a true iso-caloric profile) are GREAT while adding mass, but not really what the bodybuilder needs to get rid of bodyfat. Same problem as listed above arises since carbs/insulin are still present.

Keto Diets
These diets are based on the fact that when you reduce carbs to ZERO, and keep it that way for a period of anywhere from 12 hours to 48 hours (dependant an a variety of factors) your body will shift from first burning carbs, to then burning fats, to ultimately converting fats into ketones, and using the ketones as the primary fuel source. The name given to this process is ketosis, hence the name keto-diet. Keto diets are protein sparing, which means your body will tend to hold on to protein (muscle) which is exactly what we want when dieting.

These diets do work extremely well for dropping bodyfat while holding onto muscle. Just what the aspiring bodybuilder wants. So what?s the catch? Well??the catch is that to achieve and stay in actual ketosis, you usually have to be carb-free about 2 days. These diets are typically done by going without any carbs for 5 days (sometimes 6) and then doing a 1 or 2 day ?carb-up? and repeating the cycle. Sound simple? Try it and then tell me how easy it is. If you can breach that stumbling block, you then reach the second problem. Without ANY carbs for so many days performance in the gym suffers. So while these diets are protein sparing, they don?t allow you to go all out in the gym, and you end up losing strength because you are held at reign in the gym. The third big reason they fail many is because with zero carbs, and low calorie levels, thyroid metabolism tends to get S-L-O-W-E-R. Bad thing! Even with these drawbacks, this is not a bad diet for dropping bodyfat and definitely many notches above the previously mentioned diets. But??there is a better way! Enter timed-carb dieting!

Timed Carb Diets
A timed carb diet works on the same basic principle as a keto-diet. Take away the bodies preferred fuel source (carbs) and provide enough fat in the diet that the body will switch to using fat as the fuel. But instead of going 5-6 days without ANY carbs, this diet allows you to take in carbs when they are most needed, and least likely to spill over into fat stores?right after the workout. Also, since we are not worried about actually hitting ketosis and staying in ketosis, if you slip, or just feel the need to bump up carbs a bit to replenish glycogen stores, you didn?t just bump yourself out of the ketogenic state you just spent 2 days to achieve.

What do these diets accomplish?
Fat is burned as the preferred fuel source and protein (read that muscle) is spared.
Performance in the gym stays good.
Thyroid function remains higher for a longer period of time.
You don?t go out of your head waiting 5 days to eat some damn carbs!

OK, now the how-to of a timed carb diet. Again, we are trying to get the body to switch from being a carb or protein-burning machine into a fat burning machine. Remember, if caloric levels are low, and carbs, thus insulin is high, your body will convert protein to carbs via glucogenisys and that is to be avoided at all costs. Anyway, to get on the path of burning fat as fuel, we simply remove the carbs out of the equation, AND keep fat in the diet at (at least) a 40-50% ratio. This lets the body know there is still a primary fuel source (fat) and allows it to be burned as fuel, while sparing protein

So, we decide to start a timed carb diet on Monday. Sunday night you cut out the carbs about three hours before bed. When you wake up in the morning blood sugar levels will be very low, and your body will be wanting some carbs---too bad, it doesn?t get any! You will eat only fat and protein. Ensuring fat makes up at LEAST 40% of the caloric profile. You may have a leafy green salad with oil based dressing, or some string-beans, or other such low-carb veggie, BUT NO MORE THAN 6-8 grams of carbs per feeding. You keep this up right until pre-workout, where an apple is allowed IF you feel the need to put a few carbs in your system to raise energy levels. MOST guys do not find this to be necessary and if it does not provide a big advantage DON?T do it. If the carbs don?t help much, have a small protein drink and proceed with the workout.

Post-workout, and it?s time to replenish the carb-stores in the muscles you just worked. As the vast majority of you already know, immediately after a hard weight training session there is a ?window of opportunity? in the muscle cell when insulin sensitivity is very high and the body is most receptive to nutrient uptake. So?..you slam down 65-100 grams of fast liquid carbs (malto-dextrin, dextrose, and yes, even sucrose will work). About 10 minutes later follow it up with a 65-100 gram whey protein drink. As soon as you are hungry again, you can eat a small ?regular? meal with a 40/30/30 protein/carb/fat profile to ?top off the tank? of glycogen stores in the muscle. Then, you are back to zero or trace amounts of carbs until the next workout.

You then repeat the this format for a maximum of five days, and then have a 1-2 day carb-up. On days that you don?t train, you don?t eat any carbs except for a green salad or two. You do not have to run these no carb to carb days for the full five days and for many of you, having a lower ratio of no carb Vs. carb days will be advantageous. Also you do NOT have to do the carb days back-to back. You may do a couple of no carb days, followed by one or more carb days. This is determined on YOUR metabolism and how fast you want to drop the bodyfat.

Pretty simple huh? Well, I haven?t given you ALL the details, but close enough to get most of you at least much closer to being able to put together a successful diet plan on your own, and if you want to have ALL the details in place, consider having me train you!

Do?s and don?ts:
If you don?t keep the fat ratio AT LEAST 40% your body will just continue to use carbs as fuel. How does this happen if all you are eating is chicken breasts as an example? Well your body has no problems converting protein to carbs and WILL do this if it doesn?t sense an alternate fuel source (fats.)
This type of diet tends to work best with lower overall workout days, so if you are a volume trainer who is in the gym 6 days a week (bad idea in any case *text deleted*) you will see decreased results since every day will be a carb day. It will still work however.

Log your food intake for at LEAST a week to ensure you are hitting your numbers for both macro-nutrient profile, and overall kcals. You might just find out how far off you are from where you ?thought? you were.

Your carb-up days are designed to refill the glycogen stores in the muscle, and bump up caloric levels a bit to keep your thyroid off balance. They are not go all-out berserk pig-out days. MANY, MANY lifters make this mistake and cancel out all the fat loss they achieved up until the carb-up day(s).

Do cardio when dieting. No it is not mandatory, but it makes such a big difference for such little effort and time expended that is extremely short-sighted to not include it as part of your fat-loss plan.

Don?t be in a big hurry to drop the bodyfat. You didn?t get fat overnight (well, some of you almost did) so don?t try to lose it overnight. You should work along the lines of about this much fat loss a week:
150-200 lb trainees, 1.5 lbs a week
200-250 lb trainees, 2 lbs a week
250+ 2 to 2-1/2b lbs a week

Going much more aggressive than that and strength gains will slow or stop, and catabolism may set in.

If you are just starting a reduced volume (or realistic training program) the scale may be worthless at first. Many people are able to gain a significant amount of muscle when dieting like this. Use the mirror and calipers (or better yet hydro-static weighing) to determine your rate of success.

You WILL end up looking flat by day 3-4, this is NOT representative of what you will look like when fully carbed-up. Remember, each gram of glycogen in the muscle brings 3 grams of water with it. When glycogen stores are down (and they will be) when doing low carbs you will ?appear? smaller. It?s just water, don?t sweat it!

This type of diet lends itself well to getting a large percentage of daily caloric levels from protein powder and EFA?s (essential fatty acids), and that makes it convenient to do.

I will at some point put out another article aimed at how to stay lean while adding mass, and as you might guess it is a variation of this basic format.

There you go, get that damn bodyfat off you and become a true bodybuilder. You know, one who isn?t afraid to take his shirt off-*text deleted**.

And, again, If you want ALL the pieces of diet/routine and supplementation laid out for you including exact macronutrient and kcal requirements, consider having me train you!

More timed carb diet options I am Many people here do time carb diets to drop body fat and preserve or build muscle while dieting. As previously stated in my timed carb diet article, no, or low carbohydrate diets with periodic carb ups, and always ensuring post workout carb ups are completed are the best way to get lean while not sacrificing muscle. And if implemented properly, strength and mass will be built while dieting.

The way these diets are typically structured is to have a set amount of days where low or no carbs are consumed unless it is a workout day, and then have specific carb-up periods to replenish glycogen stores, help keep thyroid output high, and give the trainee a break from the low carbs. This keeps performance good and keeps a trainee sane while dieting. Some people though can have a problem with having three to five days with low or no carbs. While I do feel that the standard plan is the best approach to doing this, and the fastest way to drop body fat, I also understand it is not for everybody, and modifications can be used for some of these trainees that won't do it the traditional way.

A typical time carb diet might be four days without carbs (training days get carbs PWO, and a normal meal after) and three days where carbs are consumed. This can be kind of rough on some trainees for various reasons. And some guys just don't have the mental fortitude to go if three to five days without consuming significant quantities of carbs. If they stick with it after approximately a week and a half to two weeks they will find energy levels are fine and performance stays good. But???. getting some people to do the whole two weeks can be difficult. And I have heard every excuse in the world as to why can't be done some very valid some absolutely horrible. I had one guy tell me if he went more than five hours without carbs he would pass out. What I pointed out that it was a miracle that he woke up after sleeping for five hours he backed off on his exaggeration about how bad it made him feel. And the reality is no one no one will pass out after not eating carbs or not eating for five hours. But some people like to be dramatic.

Here are some options for people that won't or don't want to take the traditional approach to a time carb diet:

An every other day timed-carb diet. Yes, this is exactly what it sounds like. On day one you consume low or no carbs. On day two, you have a normal carb day. Repeat process indefinitely. Pretty simple huh? It works, and works well as long as you understand that the rate of fatloss will be half or less than half of a normal timed carb diet. And of course you can play with the ratios indefinitely, so you can do two days no carbs, one day carbs or vice versa.

Another approach, and one that works well for people that tend to be somewhat hypoglycemic is doing a half-day no carb, half-day carb. What works best is consuming carbs in the morning and then having a carb cut-off at a specified time, say two o'clock in the afternoon. After your carb cutoff, no carbs are consumed and the diet consists of protein and fat. This will allow fat to be burned at a more rapid pace than if carbs are consumed during those hours. Of course it is a compromise, but significant amounts of body fat can be lost over time, and it is a pretty comfortable diet to do. That is unless you get visions of ice cream dancing in your head about eight o'clock while watching TV?*text deleted*.

Remember low-calorie moderate to high carbohydrate diets will drop scale weight. The problem is, a lot of the weight lost will be muscle because insulin shots down the enzymatic process that allows body fat to be liberated. Insulin control is really what we are after here, no carbs = no insulin= body fat liberated = muscle preserved--simple as that! I hope these options gave you a couple more ideas for those that are hesitant or just don't have the willpower to go too long without their favorite carbs.

Iron Addict



Stokey


 
 

Anthony_H

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I've been running a cycling keto for the past 3 weeks going into my 4th now. Did alot of reading etc after seeing a few posts on here, it's quite interesting. The first week was a little hard though, i ended up breaking as just felt drained but towards the second week i felt good. I'm enjoying it, i like cooking and finding different ways to make food interesting is fun. It's, Quality too, having a BBQ right now. Home made burgers garlic pepper and basil. Sausage and a rump stake, small serving of cheese bit of salad etc yum.

There was a good post on the bodybuilding forums about it too, shows the best ways to plan it etc almost the same stuff as your post above. But I will post it later for you, I'm on week 4 now and gone from 13.6 stone to 13-13.1. I did it to cut my chubbyness in the mid section and it seems to be working pretty well, with the added bonus of enjoying it
 

Gump

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what type of fats can you eat? so the plan is basically no carbs except after workout?
 

Luke2504

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Loved the articles, I doubt I'll need it as I'm a skinny runt with a high metabolism but its interesting nevertheless. Thanks for sharing.
 
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stokey_14

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what type of fats can you eat? so the plan is basically no carbs except after workout?

Eat what ever fats you want with in reason. As said there is no hard and fast way to do it, the article highlights various carb up patterns?:huh:

Stokey
 

Gump

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Eat what ever fats you want with in reason. As said there is no hard and fast way to do it, the article highlights various carb up patterns?:huh:

Stokey
i know i was asking about one of them, thanks for the link mate
 

Anthony_H

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I choosen to cycle after fridays gym workout upto saturday night/midday sunday. Have a selection of oils too for cooking and with salads. Wallnut oil, olive oil, olive oil with basil, olive oil with a hint of curry and one with chilli, butter and sunflower. Adding more stuff as I go along to make basic things more tasty, you can get some salad dressings and sauces etc that have 0 or very minimal carbs, I have a light italian one.
 

MacheteMeetsBiscuit

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Am a big fan of carb cycling. My "common sense" thread was for those just wishing to be healthy but when a specific goal is in mind, e.g. rapid fat loss, I also like to try detailed nutritional plans.
On day 9 of a cycling plan right now, already cut a few lbs and feeling better. Today is a high-carb day so I'm having it as my 2-weekly cheat day.

One way an MMA Fighter I know did it before a fight was 2 absolute-zero carb days (basically just prawns and egg whites all day) followed by one super-high carb day. It's NOT a healthy plan to follow for weeks on end but I once lost 4lbs of pure fat in a week by doing it and the fighter mate lost 7lb in 2 weeks. Not tried it since though because you do feel like utter death at the end of it.
 

westy

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Does this mean saying goodbye to porridge and weatabix for breakfast??
 
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stokey_14

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Does this mean saying goodbye to porridge and weatabix for breakfast??

On low carb days yes, wheatbix are a fairly poor for carbs anyways but oatmeal on a day where you are allowed moderate to high carbs would be fine.

Stokey
 

MacheteMeetsBiscuit

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On carb days make your porridge with Quinoa instead of oats. It's almost the same for carbs as oats but it's also quite high in protein and really fills you up (fiber + protein = full til lunch!)
 

GingerjoeRM

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This sounds tempting. But I'm not sure if I could work it around my training..I train every day. Usually like MWF being abs/pullups STT being pressups or something. Then cardio four days a week, as well as leg work in the gym twice a week.. Help?

Perhaps if I didn't eat carbs in the morning, and then broke the carb fast 2pm-9pm? But then how many carbs would I need between then? If I was to determine macro's it would be a nightmare?
 
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stokey_14

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This sounds tempting. But I'm not sure if I could work it around my training..I train every day. Usually like MWF being abs/pullups STT being pressups or something. Then cardio four days a week, as well as leg work in the gym twice a week.. Help?

Perhaps if I didn't eat carbs in the morning, and then broke the carb fast 2pm-9pm? But then how many carbs would I need between then? If I was to determine macro's it would be a nightmare?

It's the most flexible thing going. play around, you don't have to eat carbs on training days, trust me you can still have a tough effective workout without carbs.

perhaps save carbs for your 2-3 hardest days, I'll say again there is no hard and fast way of doing this, it takes some time and effort to get it right.

carb cycling may not be for everyone however for me it's the best thing i've tried with regards to weight loss.

stokey
 
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