CIVILIANS are to oversee Royal Marine training for the first time in a controversial move that will also make money.“

Rob20

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I've seen this sooo much recently. Lads, do not misinterpret this as Civilian instructors on the training teams. That's not what will happen. How could it? Apply some common sense.

It will be the backroom and support staff. You'll see that every military camp is full of civvy contractors.

For an applicant aspiring to make it to training, there is nothing to worry about. It will still be bootnecks taking you through.

Advice for life, ignore most things you read in British media. It really grips me to see how much misinformation exists, but equally how many people fall for it.
 

Blades1889

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This has put me off slightly to be honest. Don’t believe a thing in the news until it actually happens though.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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What is the general consensus on this? I can’t see any positives.
I didn’t realise this was a thread, i made one, I’ll move my post over:


I wanted to get this out and make sure people saw it, potential recruits, recruits, Trained ranks and that hopefully the caviar munching officers that lurk on this forum realise the absolute mistake they are making by allowing this to happen.

There is definitely someone getting rich off the back of this, I would want to see what officers and politicians have a conflict of interest in allowing this.
Capita has beena joke, and has been discussed several times on this forum. I had trouble myself with what should have been a simple procedure. Not to mention the numerous people who on this forum and going under the radar that have had trouble with Capita and their applications, medicals etc.

“It comes after Capita won a £1billion, 12-year contract to deliver training services to 16 sites across the Royal Navy.”

Aye after the joke and failure of their previous work?!

“However, the shake-up is said to include using algorithms to determine whether a sailor or marine has passed a promotion course. That would end the use of officers’ discretion to spot talent – the hallmark of Royal Navy promotion for 300 years.

The project will also streamline promotion courses and opportunities amid a glut of senior non-commissioned officers.”

At Naval Command in Portsmouth, the fleet’s HR director has claimed the Capita contract will transform training.

Rear Admiral Phil Hally said: “This marks a major milestone. It will transform the way we train our people, unlocking more opportunities for them to fulfil their potential and get better trained people to the front line, quicker.””


Ha! Good one boss! Have you seen their previous work? Just Google capita failure and see the list of failures they have had in other industries, not just the MOD.

“MoD permanent secretary admits the contract has not been "anywhere near as successful as we’d like".”


“He said it was “naïve” to think the job of an army recruiting sergeant could be subcontracted out to a non-military organisation. “I think that was a failing.””
Aye so your happy to hand over the training to civilian instructors then?

““In hindsight we lost our ability to nurture our candidates, to look after them, and to pay them the attention that they really deserved,” he said.”



This is an absolute joke. And I refuse to believe there isn’t some sort of corruption or money making involved.

I have zero confidence and faith in the hierarchy after learning this. I feel sorry for the future recruits and trained ranks that have to deal with this. I am thankful for at least one Officer standing up against it:


“However, last night one serving Lieutenant Commander with knowledge of the plans said: “This initiative will damage training, particularly for the marines. If you want to deliver the best recruits, you select the best military instructors, not civilians.

“In my view, this is not about delivering better training; it is about saving money – and it is about time the Navy Board looked at themselves and started to balance the number of Admirals and senior officers.

He claimed: “It is a disgrace we still have more Admirals than ships; we have 15 Royal Marine Brigadiers yet only one brigade.
“Can you imagine the impact this plan will have on young recruits who suddenly face being instructed by civilians?”



“Capita’s CEO Jon Lewis said: “We are delighted that the Royal Navy has selected us.
“The award is a measure of the confidence and trust the Royal Navy and Ministry of Defence have in Capita’s expertise.
“It also reflects the strong relationship Capita has with the Government. We look forward to working with the consortium and the Royal Navy to transform, modernise and create better outcomes for the training service.”



Aye Johnny the boys club and caviar munching desk jockeys in Government might like you lining their pockets. But the people that work under you, and the people that have had to deal with you don’t have a good relationship with Capita, have no confidence or trust in you or a capita.
 

1919

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I didn’t realise this was a thread, i made one, I’ll move my post over:


I wanted to get this out and make sure people saw it, potential recruits, recruits, Trained ranks and that hopefully the caviar munching officers that lurk on this forum realise the absolute mistake they are making by allowing this to happen.

There is definitely someone getting rich off the back of this, I would want to see what officers and politicians have a conflict of interest in allowing this.
Capita has beena joke, and has been discussed several times on this forum. I had trouble myself with what should have been a simple procedure. Not to mention the numerous people who on this forum and going under the radar that have had trouble with Capita and their applications, medicals etc.

“It comes after Capita won a £1billion, 12-year contract to deliver training services to 16 sites across the Royal Navy.”

Aye after the joke and failure of their previous work?!

“However, the shake-up is said to include using algorithms to determine whether a sailor or marine has passed a promotion course. That would end the use of officers’ discretion to spot talent – the hallmark of Royal Navy promotion for 300 years.

The project will also streamline promotion courses and opportunities amid a glut of senior non-commissioned officers.”

At Naval Command in Portsmouth, the fleet’s HR director has claimed the Capita contract will transform training.

Rear Admiral Phil Hally said: “This marks a major milestone. It will transform the way we train our people, unlocking more opportunities for them to fulfil their potential and get better trained people to the front line, quicker.””


Ha! Good one boss! Have you seen their previous work? Just Google capita failure and see the list of failures they have had in other industries, not just the MOD.

“MoD permanent secretary admits the contract has not been "anywhere near as successful as we’d like".”


“He said it was “naïve” to think the job of an army recruiting sergeant could be subcontracted out to a non-military organisation. “I think that was a failing.””
Aye so your happy to hand over the training to civilian instructors then?

““In hindsight we lost our ability to nurture our candidates, to look after them, and to pay them the attention that they really deserved,” he said.”



This is an absolute joke. And I refuse to believe there isn’t some sort of corruption or money making involved.

I have zero confidence and faith in the hierarchy after learning this. I feel sorry for the future recruits and trained ranks that have to deal with this. I am thankful for at least one Officer standing up against it:


“However, last night one serving Lieutenant Commander with knowledge of the plans said: “This initiative will damage training, particularly for the marines. If you want to deliver the best recruits, you select the best military instructors, not civilians.

“In my view, this is not about delivering better training; it is about saving money – and it is about time the Navy Board looked at themselves and started to balance the number of Admirals and senior officers.

He claimed: “It is a disgrace we still have more Admirals than ships; we have 15 Royal Marine Brigadiers yet only one brigade.
“Can you imagine the impact this plan will have on young recruits who suddenly face being instructed by civilians?”



“Capita’s CEO Jon Lewis said: “We are delighted that the Royal Navy has selected us.
“The award is a measure of the confidence and trust the Royal Navy and Ministry of Defence have in Capita’s expertise.
“It also reflects the strong relationship Capita has with the Government. We look forward to working with the consortium and the Royal Navy to transform, modernise and create better outcomes for the training service.”



Aye Johnny the boys club and caviar munching desk jockeys in Government might like you lining their pockets. But the people that work under you, and the people that have had to deal with you don’t have a good relationship with Capita, have no confidence or trust in you or a capita.

Going on previous, and by the contracts handed out over COVID, I would imagine mission creep almost a certainty.

The army version of the PRMC was, when I did it in 2015/2016, ran completely by a civilian company located on camp. I only found out they were civvies after inquiring about the set up at the end as they were in combats and t-shirts, styled a bit differently but still with the army logo on.

Spoke to us and ordered us around as if they were regular training staff though.
 

Rob20

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43 CDO will lose their role at Faslane I reckon eventually. G4S or someone similar will take over.

Wasn't there big international pressure from the US, to ensure nuclear assets were guarded by an appropriate trustworthy organisation as opposed to MPGS or G4S for example? Hence why the Corps has been doing it.
 

Jaykay2343

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Wasn't there big international pressure from the US, to ensure nuclear assets were guarded by an appropriate trustworthy organisation as opposed to MPGS or G4S for example? Hence why the Corps has been doing it.

It's true that statement.

However as seen above. Backhanders and money seem to talk a lot louder.
 

TheRents

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Backhanders and money seem to talk a lot louder.
Maybe so, but more often than not it is just plain old incompetence and giant ego's that are to blame.

Remember in this country bribing a public official either directly or through inducements, can result in a custodial sentence for both parties and has done so on many occasions.
 

Chelonian

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Just to add to the comment by @TheRents in the UK we rather take for granted the scrutiny and oversight of the executive branch of civil servants. In the UK cock up is more likely than conspiracy.

Back in the early 1990s working on MOD (N) ship repair contracts the procurement teams visiting shipyards operated in teams of a minimum of three to minimise risk of corruption.
On one occasion a team from Filton had an earnest discussion among themselves and checked with their office before agreeing that they could accept our lunch hospitality of champagne and a Thai full-body massage with a plate of sandwiches from Marks & Spencer.
 

Jaykay2343

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Galleys ran by outside contracts, Cleaning of the grots is done by outside contracts, Recruitment/marketing done by Capita.

Last gym I went to that was on an Army base, the staffing was done by babcock.

Where will it end if you ask me?
 

TheRents

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The question that should be asked is

"Why are Crapita so bad?"

The answer is because they can be. Why put in massive effort when you can trouser hundreds of millions by being at best mediocre. Government procurement has always been a joke, but no one is laughing.

For us the week before the end of the financial year used to be an absolute party. The following are a two sorry examples.

1. "Christ is that all it comes too? You will have to give us the most expensive ones you have! If we don't use the budget, we will loose it next year."
2. Thursday morning call to tell us no one had remembered to call and order our bespoke product and needed 30 manufactured and installed before following Tuesday.
Site surveyed, materials ordered and overnighted by carrier for Friday, factory worked through the weekend to fabricate units. 0700 hrs Monday morning fitters arrived on site to begin installation to find it locked. On finding the head of property services, were informed that due to a change of plan the whole site was to be mothballed, but not to worry just send in the invoice. :mad: Several years later when it was decided to reopen the site, everything was skipped and they started again..........-banghead-
 

Chelonian

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We once did a refit on a Devonport RMAS Dog class tug. In 1991 the refit cost was £300,000. The tug left our yard and went directly to Portsmouth where it was mothballed for five years with a planned scrap at the end of that period.

It appears wasteful but there is a logic to it. If a tug is urgently required at, say, 48 hours notice it can't be built in that time.

From memory the most difficult part of such refits was catering to the whims of the RMAS crews which had v. militant trades union affiliations. :)
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Going on previous, and by the contracts handed out over COVID, I would imagine mission creep almost a certainty.

The army version of the PRMC was, when I did it in 2015/2016, ran completely by a civilian company located on camp. I only found out they were civvies after inquiring about the set up at the end as they were in combats and t-shirts, styled a bit differently but still with the army logo on.

Spoke to us and ordered us around as if they were regular training staff though.
Yea definitely, plus the covid situation will no doubt be force people to rejoin so will skew the recruitment numbers.

That’s actually horrendous! How can civvies with no idea or haven’t done any military training or operations be running something like a PRMC?! I would have absolutely zero respect for them.

Is this still a thing?!
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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43 CDO will lose their role at Faslane I reckon eventually. G4S or someone similar will take over.
By Christ I hope not. They were an absolute shower of sh1t at the Olympics. Absolute disgrace of a company aswell.
Maybe so, but more often than not it is just plain old incompetence and giant ego's that are to blame.

Remember in this country bribing a public official either directly or through inducements, can result in a custodial sentence for both parties and has done so on many occasions.
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen through more indirect means. A bribe or manipulation might not be a simple case of cash in a brown envelope anymore.
Galleys ran by outside contracts, Cleaning of the grots is done by outside contracts, Recruitment/marketing done by Capita.

Last gym I went to that was on an Army base, the staffing was done by babcock.

Where will it end if you ask me?
Yep, and the Galleys are shocking, lads wouldn’t use them. And prefer to cook in grots. The staff were a disgrace.
I wouldn’t want some civvie cutting about my grot.
 

Kingsman

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Yea definitely, plus the covid situation will no doubt be force people to rejoin so will skew the recruitment numbers.

That’s actually horrendous! How can civvies with no idea or haven’t done any military training or operations be running something like a PRMC?! I would have absolutely zero respect for them.

Is this still a thing?!
When I went for Army Selection Centre at Lichfield back in 2015, they hired what seemed to be some sort of hybrid organisation of ex army that were technically civvies working part time as instructors on the course. They all told us their background and all had multiple tours. There were also serving trained ranks (Sgt's etc) taking us as well.
 

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