Cop takes a one man stand

Langa please?

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Again this is complete ignorance to the 2nd Amendment and why the US is the way it is.
Sheriff David Clarke did a goo job of explaining how the Constitution and 2nd Amendment went hand in hand with the freeing of the slaves, and their right to self defence. Ill try and find it.
Would definitely appreciate it if you are able to dig that out, sounds interesting.


Exactly and thats why different states off differing types of licensing and checks for different firearms. With many different requirements for training and purchasing. Its not always a case of just cracking on.
An "AR15" fires no differently to many hunting rifles found in the UK. It is also possible to own a .50 Rifle in the UK. With proper reason to do so and training, and you get put on a very important list with the police.

To be honest I don't necessarily have an issue with the ownership of guns. My gripe with the American system is the (perceived by me) simplicity of access to guns. I admittedly have no idea on the ins and out of regulations but judging solely on the frequency of mass shootings there must be a problem somewhere in the system. I am definitely speaking from an outside viewpoint though, it could be I'm making 2+2=5.

Its about giving the Citizens of the USA the ability and chance to defend themselves against a Government backed Military or police force that they could use to impose on the Public. The Founding fathers did a really interesting and good job about implementing a system of checks and balances and safeguarding against corruption. Thats why Presidents can only do 2 terms in Office.

Think of it like this, the UK get forced to stay in the EU, it the deploys its EU army compromising of various people from across the EU into the UK with a view to overthrow the democratically elected UK Government. How would we as a public be able to defend against such abuse of power and tyranny? (and funny how the non democratic EU wanted an Army, with no accountability and answers to themselves... its like the Sturmabeitlung all over again).
Is there a realistic chance of the American people being able to defend themselves against the military?

I'm just not sure that the 'what if' scenario outweighs the problems arising from mass gun ownership. Especially when I cant see any way that an armed militia would come out on top in that situation.

Australia was a perfect example of reduced gun crime after bringing in heavier restrictions and regulations on ownership.

Edit: I should make clear that I was referring to the mass shootings in Australia, I haven't looked at general gun crime rates.
 

Chelonian

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Is there a realistic chance of the American people being able to defend themselves against the military?
The mistrust of their government by citizens of the USA should not be underestimated.

Apparently troops from the 82nd Airborne Division were on standby outside Washington DC during the recent civil unrest. If they had been deployed thousands of 'preppers' would have had their fears justified.
 

Langa please?

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The mistrust of their government by citizens of the USA should not be underestimated.

Apparently troops from the 82nd Airborne Division were on standby outside Washington DC during the recent civil unrest. If they had been deployed thousands of 'preppers' would have had their fears justified.
I don't disagree that the fear is justified, especially given the recent comments of the American president.

I'm just not sure what an armed militia could actually acheive against the military and if the ongoing issues of gun regulation are justified to that end.

I suppose its a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.
 

Kaisamson

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As has been highlighted, I don't see the good or proper use of firearms or the use of restraint by the police, because the media don't show it. Unintentionally I am essentially a puppet of the propaganda machine.

Maybe a meet in the middle between US and UK police? Specialist armed units (plenty of them though) with the highest class of training and regular top ups and exercises etc, only called when the suspect(s) are suspected to be armed themselves?

I don't know if you've seen the latest police shooting in Atlanta, where in the end the suspect was desrvedly shot for aiming the officers taser at him, but the incident began with a man asleep in his car - not sure those situations warrant firearms, which I think can very often just escalate a situation through fear, but just my opinion.
 

thirdtry

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For anyone interested in how blatantly the media can adjust the story:

A few years back whilst getting into photography I got to know a Photojournalist in a hostel in Asia, who has photographed events all over the world for Reuters, NatGeo and all sorts. We were talking about the power that photographers have to influence perceptions and he said he literally takes sequences of thousands of photos of any event to then sell certain photos to certain media outlets.

The notable example he used was Israel. He said when it kicks off there he takes photos of suffering Palestinians and angry Israeli troops to sell to the left-wing press. Then he takes photos of injured or exhausted Israeli soldiers and the big angry looking Palestinians and sells them to the right-wing press. He'll adjust how he words his descriptions to suit the media outlet he sells to.

Now if that is every major news photographer, your entire worldview is shifted by the news outlets you choose to tune in to.
 

Kaisamson

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For anyone interested in how blatantly the media can adjust the story:

A few years back whilst getting into photography I got to know a Photojournalist in a hostel in Asia, who has photographed events all over the world for Reuters, NatGeo and all sorts. We were talking about the power that photographers have to influence perceptions and he said he literally takes sequences of thousands of photos of any event to then sell certain photos to certain media outlets.

The notable example he used was Israel. He said when it kicks off there he takes photos of suffering Palestinians and angry Israeli troops to sell to the left-wing press. Then he takes photos of injured or exhausted Israeli soldiers and the big angry looking Palestinians and sells them to the right-wing press. He'll adjust how he words his descriptions to suit the media outlet he sells to.

Now if that is every major news photographer, your entire worldview is shifted by the news outlets you choose to tune in to.
Starts to get a little bit daunting when you realise you really can't trust anything at all that you didn't witness yourself.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Would definitely appreciate it if you are able to dig that out, sounds interesting.





To be honest I don't necessarily have an issue with the ownership of guns. My gripe with the American system is the (perceived by me) simplicity of access to guns. I admittedly have no idea on the ins and out of regulations but judging solely on the frequency of mass shootings there must be a problem somewhere in the system. I am definitely speaking from an outside viewpoint though, it could be I'm making 2+2=5.



Is there a realistic chance of the American people being able to defend themselves against the military?

I'm just not sure that the 'what if' scenario outweighs the problems arising from mass gun ownership. Especially when I cant see any way that an armed militia would come out on top in that situation.

Australia was a perfect example of reduced gun crime after bringing in heavier restrictions and regulations on ownership.

Edit: I should make clear that I was referring to the mass shootings in Australia, I haven't looked at general gun crime rates.
More people die on American Roads than to shootings, but No one calls for stricter vehicle control.
The majority of fire arm “shootings” or incidents are handgun related, not with “assault type weapons”. About 3x as much.
And of the total number of Gun related deaths suicide is by far the most common, by a considerable margin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States


Of course there is a chance for the population to defend themselves, plus there’s a lot in their armed forces and police that abide and live by that constitution and there have been instances of local police departments threatening to refuse any action that is deemed against the constitution.

there’s many instances throughout history where a poorly trained and equipped but highly motivated population took on the USA war machine and did considerable damage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_of_Australia

As for Aus it’s hard to determine and it looks like it depends on what study or stats you look at but it’s deemed a success but Also deemed to have little effect.
But again they don’t have a similar culture of mistrust on the government. The very fabric of th
As has been highlighted, I don't see the good or proper use of firearms or the use of restraint by the police, because the media don't show it. Unintentionally I am essentially a puppet of the propaganda machine.

Maybe a meet in the middle between US and UK police? Specialist armed units (plenty of them though) with the highest class of training and regular top ups and exercises etc, only called when the suspect(s) are suspected to be armed themselves?

I don't know if you've seen the latest police shooting in Atlanta, where in the end the suspect was desrvedly shot for aiming the officers taser at him, but the incident began with a man asleep in his car - not sure those situations warrant firearms, which I think can very often just escalate a situation through fear, but just my opinion.

The shooting in Atlanta was justified, the man in question was drunk in charge of the vehicle, after he was informed he was getting a DUI, he became violent and assaulted 2 officers before stealing and aiming a lethal weapon at police, so on the grounds of reasonable and proportionate force. They fired back. Remember a taser isn’t classed as non lethal it’s “less than lethal”.

I would say the UK is too far the other way. To subdue a many wielding a knife and being a threat to the public, it takes a lot of manpower and time, usually with riot gear (and their underpowered CS spray) where as the US can not understand why we do it and can’t understand the risk we would take. To them it’s grounds for reasonable lethal force. A knife can and will kill (and let’s not forget the 21 foot rule). It always made me laugh when Scotland put on a “demonstration” for the USA, with knife crime, and you could just see plenty of bored yanks. Not to mention plenty of slagging off on social media.

I agree with a middle ground between the US and the UK, although the UK will never relax gun laws.

There’s plenty of footage of ordinary citizens legally carrying firearms that have saved life and prevented crime for the use of fire arms or the presence of a firearm being shown.


For anyone interested in how blatantly the media can adjust the story:

A few years back whilst getting into photography I got to know a Photojournalist in a hostel in Asia, who has photographed events all over the world for Reuters, NatGeo and all sorts. We were talking about the power that photographers have to influence perceptions and he said he literally takes sequences of thousands of photos of any event to then sell certain photos to certain media outlets.

The notable example he used was Israel. He said when it kicks off there he takes photos of suffering Palestinians and angry Israeli troops to sell to the left-wing press. Then he takes photos of injured or exhausted Israeli soldiers and the big angry looking Palestinians and sells them to the right-wing press. He'll adjust how he words his descriptions to suit the media outlet he sells to.

Now if that is every major news photographer, your entire worldview is shifted by the news outlets you choose to tune in to.
Add to that the algorithms of social media that track the trends of your searches, interests and habits. And you then see nothing but links, stories, news, pictures and other media related to everything you already know, just reinforcing your position, rather than challenging and investigating and drawing your own conclusion.

I try and take my media from various sources and I try to watch “left” media articles to challenge myself and my view points and try and draw my own opinion from it.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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There’s a few outlets telling the story but I quite like the hodge twins:

The officers in question were fired and had zero support from their Mayor or chain of command.

howeevr there’s been record numbers of people resigning from various police forces around the US, and some have even just walked off the job without going through the correct channels to leave.
 
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Kaisamson

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Would be interested to see statistics from the US of how many lives guns save compared to how many they take, police and civilian, if anyone has seen any such report?
 

Chelonian

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Would be interested to see statistics from the US of how many lives guns save compared to how many they take, police and civilian, if anyone has seen any such report?
I don't know the stats; someone might have a link. But I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a vanishingly small number of lives are 'saved' in the USA compared to those lost.

Arguably we are mainly discussing civilians carrying handguns in this context. A considerable amount of training time is required to safely operate most handguns; basics such as loading, unloading and making safe. And that training and practice must be continuous to prevent skill fade.
If the operator of the weapon intends to deploy it defensively the training time requirement possibly increases ten-fold.

Many responsible gun shops in the USA sell weapons with a basic range training package as an option but one hour's tuition doesn't instil much confidence.
 

thirdtry

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Ironically the 'Autonomous Zone' that BLM have declared in Seattle for the past few weeks, basically blocked off their own mini city, is being patrolled and policed by civilians with assault rifles. I read a critique somewhere that said "for a side of the political compass usually against authoritarian rule, pro free movement and against guns, it took them all of 2 days to realise they needed an armed militia to keep out anyone they didn't like".
 

1919

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The knot of technology, grievance, millenarian religious replacement energy, newspeak, virtue signalling etc. etc. etc. is too potentially too big and too complicated to untie now though, especially as those with power behind all of this believe they've stepped outside the rules that the rest of us play by.

I.e: objective truth does not exist (it's an illusion created by the 'base' material forces of capital) and thus language is not descriptive or argumentative, but a blunt instrument of power to be used for the attainment of power. Trying to fight that with rational argument is almost always going to be in vain.

There's a leftist theory called accelarationism, which states that the best way to overcome capitalism is to speed it up as much as possible so that its own contradictions will bring about its collapse sooner.

Part of me flirts with a conservative version of that at the minute. Maybe the best way to get rid of this is to hand them the Brave New World and wait for it to inevitably eat itself.

After spending too much of my early 20s at one of the universities teaching this as gospel and seeing how widespread it now is (more worryingly: those haven't read the theory but just accept certain orthodoxes unthinkingly), I genuinely can't see a way out now: it's like a tumour that's moved past a critical mass.

John Gray the philosopher is a worth a read on this (especially his books Straw Dogs and Black Mass). He wrote an article the other day for Unherd stating that we should be looking to creating enclaves of free thought, rather than clinging to the old institutions and ways have being that have been on life support for a long time.

edit: @ThreadpigeonsAlpha tried to quote you but can't figure out how to quote just a section of a post.
 

Chelonian

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@1919 This is the procedure on a laptop: Select a block of text and a 'Quote' bubble will appear. See screen shot below.

Screenshot 2020-06-17 at 18.59.07.png

Click the 'Quote' bubble and the selected text block will appear in your reply. The quoted forum user is also alerted that he or she has been quoted.
 

GreyWing

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Looks like it has kicked off again, 3 dead in stabbing. Reminds me of Israel, every-time peace (today's BLM stuff passed off peacefully apparently) has a chance someone stirs it up again. Why would a Libyan Asylum seeker do that? Just makes no sense.

For me it is clear now that someone sitting in the back seats is trying to stir things up. Someone somewhere is trying to take the UK down a very dark path by getting us to fight each other.
 

Corona

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There’s a few outlets telling the story but I quite like the hodge twins:

The officers in question were fired and had zero support from their Mayor or chain of command.

howeevr there’s been record numbers of people resigning from various police forces around the US, and some have even just walked off the job without going through the correct channels to leave.
Seems to be huge numbers of APD members walking out/calling in sick:

Mayor of Atlanta requested mutual aid from the Fulton County Sheriff, neighbouring jurisdictions the GA State Patrol and the GA National Guard. All have refused.

District attorney seems to have really messed up, and would definitely recommend the following videos for keeping up with whats going down in Atlanta:
- Shooting Breakdown
- Why the 'blue flu' is around
- Video further explaining police walk out

District Attorneys decision to charge the oficers comes in at a week before the Democratic primary, where hes facing a tough re-election bid against 2 others. The election is happening at a time when 2 investigations of Howard (one of which is criminal). Makes it seem the whole charging of the officers is a kneejerk, political act.

As you can see from those videos, the charging of those officers is completely wrong. Worth reading this also: https://twitter.com/DonutOperator/status/1273625798092697601

Friends are all saying the shooting was not justified as it was 'only a tazer' and he should've at least 'shot to wound' -banghead-
 

CallMeLucifer

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For me it is clear now that someone sitting in the back seats is trying to stir things up. Someone somewhere is trying to take the UK down a very dark path by getting us to fight each other.
Yeah. It's called the media. The biggest enemy of mankind this century. They're the ones that gain the most from this, as the only thing they care about is selling stories.
 

GreyWing

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I think people are spotting the BBC for what they are, I'm glad to see 80,000 license fee holders ditch it in one month a month or two ago.

Twitter just got smahed as well, they banned Katie Hopkins on Friday. Well that back fired, Twitter has seen the biggest exodus of its users in it's history as people head for the Parler.com site. I'm also skeptical that these things will get traction, but this one has a very very good chance. It has some very heavyweight users on it.
 
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