Cop takes a one man stand

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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As a (fairly) conservative black I would argue there's a case for both a race issue and a culture issue in overall society, however you're absolutely right that the race side of the issue isn't really present in uk policing or black deaths, atleast nowhere near the sort of level as people would like to believe, and the aspects that maybe are present in policing ie stop and search statistics, are a result of our own actions and not of a racist system. As you said unfortunately we are doing that to ourselves because of the culture so many people love to glorify, to then shift the blame to the system when there's consequences.

So essentially the things people are protesting about ie police brutality, are the completely wrong things/not even real issues, and as said this is being fed to them by the media who will do absolutely anything to discredit the system and are essentially using black people as their current ammunition of choice.
totally agree. And this is exactly what this situation needs, discussion and understanding from both sides. Not knee jerking and mob mentality.

don’t get me wrong of course there are people who are racist and there are Cops who are bad, and should be punished and investigated accordingly. Police are in a position of power and should have respect but they also need to have our trust and that trust erodes for various diffeeent reasons.

We can all agree Floyd didn’t deserve to die the way he did for the crime he committed. But again we have to wait for the full investigation and trial. Looting and burning local communities, killing security guards and cops, does nothing but fuel ignorance and hatred.

We need to learn from history or we will be condemned to repeat it. Censoring the past does nothing but fuel ignorance. Yes there was a lot of bad stuff happening throughout the time of history in various countries.

Its interesting that the African American Council was booed when they spoke out suggesting that the movement had been taken over by Antifa for other reasons.


David Dorn was shot down protecting his community and not a word was said in the media.

Follow the money, look at where the donations go from BLM.... Democrat party. And look where David Dorns family are putting their donations, crime stoppers and back stoppers, speaks volumes.
 
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Harry McRunFast

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Nonsense.
Feel like I should qualify this.

I was merely saying that it exists.

UK police do a marvellous job, they are some of the best trained officers in the world. I see them fairly frequently around where I live and they are nothing but polite and courteous to everyone. They are a credit to themselves, and I’m saying that sincerely.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Feel like I should qualify this.

I was merely saying that it exists.

UK police do a marvellous job, they are some of the best trained officers in the world. I see them fairly frequently around where I live and they are nothing but polite and courteous to everyone. They are a credit to themselves, and I’m saying that sincerely.

It’s not the officers most people have a problem with, nor the officers themselves. It’s the chain of command, the red tape, and the fact the hierarchy are more concerned for their own skin, their own political agenda and their resumes that have them on wild goose chases and wasting police money.

Not to mention the obvious hypocrisy.


Stumbled across this, great insight:

and Gillers99, you are welcome to disagree with me, feel free to explain..
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Then surely it is up to reasonable people to encourage that which is reasonable?
Not when they feel silenced. Look at the red wall in the last General Election.

Look at Trump, Brexit and the growing calls for other European Countries to leave the EU, look at the growing rise of right wing politics across Europe.

 

Harry McRunFast

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It’s not the officers most people have a problem with, nor the officers themselves. It’s the chain of command, the red tape, and the fact the hierarchy are more concerned for their own skin, their own political agenda and their resumes that have them on wild goose chases and wasting police money
I suppose what I was saying is that though incidents do occur, you would be extremely hard pressed to find a culture of police violence in the UK. I’m virtually certain you could not prove that one exists.
It’s not the officers most people have a problem with, nor the officers themselves.
There have been some pretty horrendous attacks on officers recently, particularly at these protests. Also, there was that PC who fell off her horse, severely injuring herself, only for the protesters to cheer that fact... disgraceful!
Not when they feel silenced.
Yes, I’m with you there for sure
 
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ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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After mass-disliking of my comments, I was rather disappointed to see no elaboration.
Yep! I’d gladly enter into a discussion, and entertain a counter argument backed up with figures and statistics.

The US black population is 42 million, 235 black people died at the hands of the Police in 2019. That’s 0.0006%.

The biggest cause of death to the black population is heart diesease. The biggest killer of blacks under 24, is other blacks.


That being said, it’s an incredibly multilayered Problem, with many issues that won’t be solved by screaming “racist” and smashing up black community’s or ripping down statues.

And as Boris Johnson points out:
“Ayuba Suleiman Diallo’s portrait hangs in the National Gallery, Native of Gambia, known and admired in London and was a translater of Arab Texts, just happened to be a Slaver himself too...“

Mass Resigning of Police Officers across the US:
 

Chelonian

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Policing and the criminal justice system in the USA is difficult to compare with the UK. Not only because of Police culture in the USA but because of wider social attitudes.

I was once stopped by a patrol car while walking in a Fort Worth suburb because "Nobody walks around here. When we see someone walking we stop and check them out." The officers appeared genuinely surprised that anyone would walk a quarter mile to a store rather than drive. In fairness the officers were polite and courteous but they clearly had slick drills which would have dealt robustly with any escalation. Obviously I was very polite.

...235 black people died at the hands of the Police in 2019.
Does anyone have a source of credible data for US deaths in Police custody across all racial categories? The population of the USA is estimated to be over 330 million but the BBC only reports the deaths of black US citizens. Which implies that no white citizens ever die in Police custody. I find this difficult to believe.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Policing and the criminal justice system in the USA is difficult to compare with the UK. Not only because of Police culture in the USA but because of wider social attitudes.

I was once stopped by a patrol car while walking in a Fort Worth suburb because "Nobody walks around here. When we see someone walking we stop and check them out." The officers appeared genuinely surprised that anyone would walk a quarter mile to a store rather than drive. In fairness the officers were polite and courteous but they clearly had slick drills which would have dealt robustly with any escalation. Obviously I was very polite.



Does anyone have a source of credible data for US deaths in Police custody across all racial categories? The population of the USA is estimated to be over 330 million but the BBC only reports the deaths of black US citizens. Which implies that no white citizens ever die in Police custody. I find this difficult to believe.

More white people die at the hands on police, but that’s to be expected from a majority white population.

There are other websites available but tend to have less reliable figures or structure the statistics to fit their agenda.

I’ve taken that figure from
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Washington post have a good record of shootings, however you will not the specific way they display the data to make it appear larger than it is.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/



 

Kaisamson

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The issue of excessive force in american policing is widespread across all races, they are a shambles and something needs to change nationwide in my opinion. The reason it blows up when it's a black person is the feeling that it's just the modern day continuation of 400 years of continued oppression. Whether that's right or wrong it's just how they feel and why the same reaction isn't seen when white people are on the receiving end of some heavy handed police.
 

Chelonian

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Whether that's right or wrong it's just how they feel and why the same reaction isn't seen when white people are on the receiving end of some heavy handed police.
But there cannot be a reaction if such incidents are not reported, particularly by the BBC. The media has a role in educating and making all of us more aware of societal shortcomings but it focuses only on the sensational. To put it bluntly, a black US citizen dying in questionable circumstances during contact with Police is newsworthy. Identical circumstances involving a white citizen are unlikely to be reported.

Race issues aren't unique in this respect. The rape and murder of a pretty, lithe young woman will be splashed across the media while the rape and murder of a plump, middle-aged bloke is likely to warrant a passing comment, if at all.

Recent events are clear evidence that an incident in the USA can have far reaching consequences globally. Nobody appears to be questioning how the sensationalist media, as major influencers, appears to stoke divisions in this matter rather than contributing effectively to resolve injustice and discrimination.
 

CallMeLucifer

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Yep! I’d gladly enter into a discussion, and entertain a counter argument backed up with figures and statistics.
Presumably, the reason he left nothing is that he fears he will be eaten alive if he left any comment. He can tell me I'm the worst person in the world, and I'd be fine. But I can't stand passive aggressiveness.
 

Kaisamson

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But there cannot be a reaction if such incidents are not reported, particularly by the BBC. The media has a role in educating and making all of us more aware of societal shortcomings but it focuses only on the sensational. To put it bluntly, a black US citizen dying in questionable circumstances during contact with Police is newsworthy. Identical circumstances involving a white citizen are unlikely to be reported.

Race issues aren't unique in this respect. The rape and murder of a pretty, lithe young woman will be splashed across the media while the rape and murder of a plump, middle-aged bloke is likely to warrant a passing comment, if at all.

Recent events are clear evidence that an incident in the USA can have far reaching consequences globally. Nobody appears to be questioning how the sensationalist media, as major influencers, appear to stoke divisions in this matter rather than contributing effectively to resolve injustice and discrimination.
Absolutely. Social media also has a big hand in fuelling the fire, I saw the George Floyd video posted hundreds of times just scrolling through and just got increasingly upset/angry because you just can't escape the vile thumbnail. As I said the other day the media have just been using black people as clickbait for years by claiming to be on their side and infact they just divide everyone further and make actual, real life progress considerably harder. Hence why we've got to start having private discussions behind closed doors, or on forums such as this thread and just listen to eachothers opinions without them being tainted and twisted by some oppurtunist third party.
 

CallMeLucifer

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Absolutely. Social media also has a big hand in fuelling the fire, I saw the George Floyd video posted hundreds of times just scrolling through and just got increasingly upset/angry because you just can't escape the vile thumbnail. As I said the other day the media have just been using black people as clickbait for years by claiming to be on their side and infact they just divide everyone further and make actual, real life progress considerably harder. Hence why we've got to start having private discussions behind closed doors, or on forums such as this thread and just listen to eachothers opinions without them being tainted and twisted by some oppurtunist third party.
Also foreign intelligence agencies and organisations also participate in fueling the fire.
 

Chelonian

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Presumably, the reason he left nothing is that he fears he will be eaten alive if he left any comment.
That forum user has not yet made an introductory post so he is unable to comment in any thread until he has done so.

Robust, polite debate is encouraged.
 

thirdtry

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I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were out on the streets literally fuelling the fires
Following intelligence news outlets online, there was a 'suspicion' from somewhere in US intelligence that Chinese intelligence were directly responsible for buying the piles of bricks being left on streets in the US for protestors to utilise.

It's also not a conspiracy - it was proven entirely true during the Cambridge Analytica inquiry - that Russian intelligence were responsible for creating most of the main Facebook pages for both BLM and the Far Right in the 2015 riots. They funded the pages heavily in order to gain a big following then they called each side to action, which of course led not only to rioting but also loss of life on each side.

When you start to consider the PsyOps/Intelligence applications of 'viral' social media campaigns it's almost guaranteed that a lot of the current BLM stuff is originating from Russian or Chinese intelligence.
 

Kaisamson

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Following intelligence news outlets online, there was a 'suspicion' from somewhere in US intelligence that Chinese intelligence were directly responsible for buying the piles of bricks being left on streets in the US for protestors to utilise.

It's also not a conspiracy - it was proven entirely true during the Cambridge Analytica inquiry - that Russian intelligence were responsible for creating most of the main Facebook pages for both BLM and the Far Right in the 2015 riots. They funded the pages heavily in order to gain a big following then they called each side to action, which of course led not only to rioting but also loss of life on each side.

When you start to consider the PsyOps/Intelligence applications of 'viral' social media campaigns it's almost guaranteed that a lot of the current BLM stuff is originating from Russian or Chinese intelligence.
It's a crazy world we find ourselves in. Interestingly the situation sort of goes both ways when it comes to bolstering or damaging Trumps chances of re-election, people from the left have become more active and vocal joining protests etc, but those protests have pushed a lot of people further away from the left who will be happy to see Trump trying to use harsh measures to squash the protests - I wonder which way the instigators were planning it to go
 
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