Cop takes a one man stand

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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The issue of excessive force in american policing is widespread across all races, they are a shambles and something needs to change nationwide in my opinion. The reason it blows up when it's a black person is the feeling that it's just the modern day continuation of 400 years of continued oppression. Whether that's right or wrong it's just how they feel and why the same reaction isn't seen when white people are on the receiving end of some heavy handed police.

But it’s not a shambles. I’ve just posted the stats for it.
The black population is more likely to die from heart disease.

Medical errors kill 250,000 ish people a year. People that die in police actions level around the 1000 a year mark.

Now don’t get me wrong, again, everyone can agree Floyd shouldn’t have died for the crime he committed. But again, he was resisting arrest and a known violent criminal. But you can’t spark riots, kill people, call for the death of cops and white people and expect to have any legitimacy to your claims and cause. When you are lying about the figures.

Look through history, everyone has been persecuted at some point.

the Africans had a slave trade long before Europeans landed on their shores. The Vikings, Roman, Norman’s, Mongolian Empire. The Arabs had a lucrative white slave trade, and they have a very real modern day slave trade with poor Asians and Arabs being stuck in that system.

The republicans got rid of slavery and the UK decided long before anyone else that slavery was wrong and Royal Navy was instrumental in the abolishment of slavery.

defunding the police doesn’t solve the problem, it introduces new ones. You can even see it in a phenomenon known as the Ferguson Effect.

The reason why people react like that is because it’s a false narrative fuelled by the media, politics and domestic terrorist groups like Antifa and BLM.

You have black people who disagree with BLM and the movement, silenced by the media, there’s plenty of evidence I have provided, where black people agree it’s a culture problem.

The answers are out there. Facts not feelings.
 

Kaisamson

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But it’s not a shambles. I’ve just posted the stats for it.
The black population is more likely to die from heart disease.

Medical errors kill 250,000 ish people a year. People that die in police actions level around the 1000 a year mark.

Now don’t get me wrong, again, everyone can agree Floyd shouldn’t have died for the crime he committed. But again, he was resisting arrest and a known violent criminal. But you can’t spark riots, kill people, call for the death of cops and white people and expect to have any legitimacy to your claims and cause. When you are lying about the figures.

Look through history, everyone has been persecuted at some point.

the Africans had a slave trade long before Europeans landed on their shores. The Vikings, Roman, Norman’s, Mongolian Empire. The Arabs had a lucrative white slave trade, and they have a very real modern day slave trade with poor Asians and Arabs being stuck in that system.

The republicans got rid of slavery and the UK decided long before anyone else that slavery was wrong and Royal Navy was instrumental in the abolishment of slavery.

defunding the police doesn’t solve the problem, it introduces new ones. You can even see it in a phenomenon known as the Ferguson Effect.

The reason why people react like that is because it’s a false narrative fuelled by the media, politics and domestic terrorist groups like Antifa and BLM.

You have black people who disagree with BLM and the movement, silenced by the media, there’s plenty of evidence I have provided, where black people agree it’s a culture problem.

The answers are out there. Facts not feelings.
Whilst I agree that facts are the most important thing and that they're twisted by the media and the organisations mentioned, i don't think you can deny how black people are feeling if you aren't black yourself
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Whilst I agree that facts are the most important thing and that they're twisted by the media and the organisations mentioned, i don't think you can deny how black people are feeling
how SOME black people are feeling. The media silence this because it doesn’t fit their agenda.

there’s plenty of footage out there to show black people speaking out against it.

again deaths of blacks in police actions is around 0.006%
 

Kaisamson

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Whilst I agree that facts are the most important thing and that they're twisted by the media and the organisations mentioned, i don't think you can deny how black people are feeling if you aren't black yourself
I
But it’s not a shambles. I’ve just posted the stats for it.
The black population is more likely to die from heart disease.

Medical errors kill 250,000 ish people a year. People that die in police actions level around the 1000 a year mark.

Now don’t get me wrong, again, everyone can agree Floyd shouldn’t have died for the crime he committed. But again, he was resisting arrest and a known violent criminal. But you can’t spark riots, kill people, call for the death of cops and white people and expect to have any legitimacy to your claims and cause. When you are lying about the figures.

Look through history, everyone has been persecuted at some point.

the Africans had a slave trade long before Europeans landed on their shores. The Vikings, Roman, Norman’s, Mongolian Empire. The Arabs had a lucrative white slave trade, and they have a very real modern day slave trade with poor Asians and Arabs being stuck in that system.

The republicans got rid of slavery and the UK decided long before anyone else that slavery was wrong and Royal Navy was instrumental in the abolishment of slavery.

defunding the police doesn’t solve the problem, it introduces new ones. You can even see it in a phenomenon known as the Ferguson Effect.

The reason why people react like that is because it’s a false narrative fuelled by the media, politics and domestic terrorist groups like Antifa and BLM.

You have black people who disagree with BLM and the movement, silenced by the media, there’s plenty of evidence I have provided, where black people agree it’s a culture problem.

The answers are out there. Facts not feelings.
And there are videos all over the internet of police kicking people sat on the floor, pushing over a 75 year old man who ended up in a critical condition, dragging people out of cars etc - there's undeniably a policing issue, yes there are culture issues and health issues as well and maybe they are bigger issues, but the police issue is still there
 

Kaisamson

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how SOME black people are feeling. The media silence this because it doesn’t fit their agenda.

there’s plenty of footage out there to show black people speaking out against it.

again deaths of blacks in police actions is around 0.006%
I'm talking about police actions against everybody
 

Kaisamson

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But as I said further up, realistically the issues of inequality in modern society, whether it be to do with race, gender, sexuality or whatever, are not in policing, or violence or deaths or any of the things people are shouting about in the streets, and I don't really understand the majority of the arguments that the BLM movement make, ie 'there are people still in jail for selling weed' yeh but if he wasn't selling weed when it was illegal he wouldn't be in jail?? As you say the media, but also individuals, are just too quick to lap up anything they see/read/hear that fits their own agenda, and they block out everything else
 

thirdtry

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It's a crazy world we find ourselves in. Interestingly the situation sort of goes both ways when it comes to bolstering or damaging Trumps chances of re-election, people from the left have become more active and vocal joining protests etc, but those protests have pushed a lot of people further away from the left who will be happy to see Trump trying to use harsh measures to squash the protests - I wonder which way the instigators were planning it to go
There's growing evidence that a lot of the 'BLM Causes' that people's donations go to are actually organisations that lobby Joe Biden.

After all, if you want to defeat a racist, right-wing president (Trump) then starting a race war and scapegoating him as the reason for all your problems is the way to do it.

Not too different to the British left wing painting the entire Tory party as incompetent despite the fact it's the tories that have held Number 10 for the vast majority of the existence of UK party politics and we've not gone down the drain just yet.

For those interested in further 'intelligence news' I'd direct you to Reddit of all places. The subreddits r/IntelligenceNews and r/CraftOfIntelligence are where many of these stories are shared, usually coming from papers like The Economist and The Canary (reputable sources). It was an old workmate that is now in the Int Corps that pointed me towards those sites as a good overview of current affairs without sensationalism. Also lots of interesting stories about China's expansion in the South China Sea, about the FCO's involvement in the Venezuela crisis and so on.
 

Langa please?

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I've got to say, I agree with Kai in terms of the policing we have seen so far in America. There has been a LOT of really positive policing too, but the incidents of brutality have been somewhat disturbing, although many have come in difficult conditions.

Whilst the death statistics do show that perhaps the narrative of police killing people is inflated, it doesn't account in any way for the overriding issue of brutality. Many of the issues we have seen so far in the policing approach have not led to deaths.

Some of the videos have been shocking and for me, there has been too many for it to be considered coincidental. I do think questions need to be asked in terms of recruitment, training and how complaints are handled within the American system.
 

Kaisamson

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Ultimately I think it once again comes down to the common denominator in what seems like every American issue in existence, guns. They would train their officers better if they didn't have firearms to fall back on, the officers themselves wouldn't have to approach as many situations worrying about being shot and so they could remain calm and reasonable, black people would shoot less other black people which would hopefully minimise the 'the system is giving us no choice' bs and the list goes on and on.
 

Langa please?

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Ultimately I think it once again comes down to the common denominator in what seems like every American issue in existence, guns. They would train their officers better if they didn't have firearms to fall back on, the officers themselves wouldn't have to approach as many situations worrying about being shot and so they could remain calm and reasonable, black people would shoot less other black people which would hopefully minimise the 'the system is giving us no choice' bs and the list goes on and on.
It's almost like a constitution written when firearms required about 30 seconds to reload for one shot isn't appropriate when you can walk into a supermarket and buy an AR-15.

Funny that.
 

CallMeLucifer

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It's almost like a constitution written when firearms required about 30 seconds to reload for one shot isn't appropriate when you can walk into a supermarket and buy an AR-15.

Funny that.

I can assure you it doesn't take 30 secs to reload a flintlock, even a Baker rifle takes less time than that in my experience. Also, something people don't know, it also allowed people to own cannon. In the US, I think you can own an AA gun as well.

Though what I do find funny is that a tax rebellion happened in Vermont under the presidentcy of George Washington. Not only was it stomped, but the population were disarmed.
 

Langa please?

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I can assure you it doesn't take 30 secs to reload a flintlock, even a Baker rifle takes less time than that in my experience. Also, something people don't know, it also allowed people to own cannon. In the US, I think you can own an AA gun as well.
For a professional soldier perhaps, but I would imagine for someone like myself, or in a prevalent issue within America, a kid getting his hands on one it would take significantly longer.

Having said that, I am assuming considering I've never done it!
Though what I do find funny is that a tax rebellion happened in Vermont under the presidentcy of George Washington. Not only was it stomped, but the population were disarmed.
I didn't know that! Effectively the reason why the right to bear arms was written it was nullified then?
 

CallMeLucifer

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For a professional soldier perhaps, but I would imagine for someone like myself, or in a prevalent issue within America, a kid getting his hands on one it would take significantly longer.

Having said that, I am assuming considering I've never done it!

then?
Reloading a flintlock isn't that much of a complicated process. I'd say for someone that has never done it before, maybe 15 secs or so. Though with a brownbess, it would have definitely been shorter because of how large the barrel was, even compared to other flintlocks of the time.

As for the 2nd amendment, I can't say. I just know that Washington stomped them. It didn't help Vermont had border disputes with New York. The Vermont Republic (as its still known) was like the original Texas in it's independence.
 

Langa please?

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Reloading a flintlock isn't that much of a complicated process. I'd say for someone that has never done it before, maybe 15 secs or so. Though with a brownbess, it would have definitely been shorter because of how large the barrel was, even compared to other flintlocks of the time.
Fair enough, I can't argue with your greater experience!

Having said that, I think the original point still remains in terms of fire rate and potential lethality of modern day weapons compared to those of the time.

As for the 2nd amendment, I can't say. I just know that Washington stomped them. It didn't help Vermont had border disputes with New York. The Vermont Republic (as its still known) was like the original Texas in it's independence.
I'll have to have a read up on that, seems like it could take up a bit of lockdown time!
 

GreyWing

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I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were out on the streets literally fuelling the fires
There were rumours of stabbings and throat slashings going on through central London on Saturday. I don't know whether you seen the images of the black lad with what looked liked a knife in his hand shortly before punching the guy, and it did look like a throat slash, and it did look like he had a knife.

His actions of being in a mob and launching a punch where bad enough, and that's one issue. But who photoshopped that knife / blade into his hands within an hour or so of the event?

That seems pretty organised to me that someone would do that at such speed.
 

Kaisamson

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There were rumours of stabbings and throat slashings going on through central London on Saturday. I don't know whether you seen the images of the black lad with what looked liked a knife in his hand shortly before punching the guy, and it did look like a throat slash, and it did look like he had a knife.

His actions of being in a mob and launching a punch where bad enough, and that's one issue. But who photoshopped that knife / blade into his hands within an hour or so of the event?

That seems pretty organised to me that someone would do that at such speed.
Haven't seen that but that's crazy, it's like watching an episode of Homeland
 

GreyWing

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This is the one, someone photoshop'd that. People were putting bounties out for this guy to get a beating. It genuinely looks like there is a knife.

Cops had to put out a statement saying nobody had been stabbed or had their throat slashed.

Haven't seen that but that's crazy, it's like watching an episode of Homeland
EaebO1DWoAAuIPH.jpg
 

Kaisamson

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This is the one, someone photoshop'd that. People were putting bounties out for this guy to get a beating. It genuinely looks like there is a knife.

Cops had to put out a statement saying nobody had been stabbed or had their throat slashed.



EaebO1DWoAAuIPH.jpg
Madness - would be interested to know who is trying to incite a race war/violent clashes of groups in the UK and for what reason
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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I

And there are videos all over the internet of police kicking people sat on the floor, pushing over a 75 year old man who ended up in a critical condition, dragging people out of cars etc - there's undeniably a policing issue, yes there are culture issues and health issues as well and maybe they are bigger issues, but the police issue is still there
There’s also plenty of videos of the actual “peaceful protests” (read riots) from previous years, including groups of people chanting for the death of Cops, the death of white people, and the calling for violence.

Also loads of videos of antifa peacefully smashing people round the face with bike locks.

Also videos of BLM protests turning on white supporters and demanding they leave, or just beating them up.

There was also a pretty bad video of a young white man Being beaten up, mutilated and sexually assaulted by a group of black men and women, for wearing a MAGA hat.

Just because you haven’t seen it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Funny how the media controls the perception with the silencing of certain aspects.

Police issue is far down the priority list, as admitted by plenty in the black community. And again, facts not feelings. Look at the states.

A far worse priority for young black men, is being killed by other black men.

Ultimately I think it once again comes down to the common denominator in what seems like every American issue in existence, guns. They would train their officers better if they didn't have firearms to fall back on, the officers themselves wouldn't have to approach as many situations worrying about being shot and so they could remain calm and reasonable, black people would shoot less other black people which would hopefully minimise the 'the system is giving us no choice' bs and the list goes on and on.
Completely disagree on a few points.

Firstly armed policing. There’s growing support in the UK amongst police officers to arm the officers due to the huge rise of violent and armed crime.

It’s a bit ignorant to declare they aren’t well trained because they fall back on firearms. Each state funds and arms its police differently.

There’s plenty of black officers and people on YouTube describing positive instances with police while carrying a fire arm themselves.

Secondly as brits we can not comprehend that their whole country and ethos is built on a mistrust of tyrannical power and government. It’s the whole reason they went to war with the UK.

Remember the 2nd Amendment doesn’t grant the US citizens a right to bear arms, it protects it. As by the old English Constitution. By the wording “shall not be infringed”. We Brits sacrificed that right under the understanding that we were a civil modern country.

States with concealed and open carry permits have less violent crime. And the vest majority of shootings in America are done by handguns. Not “assault type weapons”.

Its got nothing to do with muskets and muzzle loading firearms, but everything to do with an armed militia to oppose a government if it decided to go corrupt.And citizens to protect their families, properties and community. Imagine in the German Citizens and Jews were armed on the Night of the Long Knives (although its common misconception that Hitler disarmed the public, it came beforehand).

Remember the People shouldn't be afraid of its Government, the Government should be afraid of its people.


Theres a really interesting article about when the 2nd Amendment became as prelevant as it is today as it used to be seen as an antiquated law before the 1960s. Long story short, it was the Black Panthers that used it, along with their knowledge of California law that states you can be outside a set amount of Metres from a police officer with a open firearm, and the black panthers actually used this knowledge to "patrol" what at the time was police brutality, this in turn led to the Citizens beginning to arm themselves.

Which you can inturn see in response to this situation. Gun sales in the US have rocketed up.


All banning guns does, is force the Citizens to be unarmed and vulnerable to criminals that wouldn't have such respect for the law.


I completely disagree with your point on the policing and firearms, I follow several organisations that offer additional training for various branches of the US Emergency and Armed Forces that people pay for out of their own pocket. The citizens and their services in general have a good attitude towards training and firearm training.

But as I said further up, realistically the issues of inequality in modern society, whether it be to do with race, gender, sexuality or whatever, are not in policing, or violence or deaths or any of the things people are shouting about in the streets, and I don't really understand the majority of the arguments that the BLM movement make, ie 'there are people still in jail for selling weed' yeh but if he wasn't selling weed when it was illegal he wouldn't be in jail?? As you say the media, but also individuals, are just too quick to lap up anything they see/read/hear that fits their own agenda, and they block out everything else
Remember equality of opportunity is different to equality of outcome.

It's almost like a constitution written when firearms required about 30 seconds to reload for one shot isn't appropriate when you can walk into a supermarket and buy an AR-15.

Funny that.

Again this is complete ignorance to the 2nd Amendment and why the US is the way it is.
Sheriff David Clarke did a goo job of explaining how the Constitution and 2nd Amendment went hand in hand with the freeing of the slaves, and their right to self defence. Ill try and find it.

For a professional soldier perhaps, but I would imagine for someone like myself, or in a prevalent issue within America, a kid getting his hands on one it would take significantly longer.

Having said that, I am assuming considering I've never done it!


I didn't know that! Effectively the reason why the right to bear arms was written it was nullified then?
Exactly and thats why different states off differing types of licensing and checks for different firearms. With many different requirements for training and purchasing. Its not always a case of just cracking on.
An "AR15" fires no differently to many hunting rifles found in the UK. It is also possible to own a .50 Rifle in the UK. With proper reason to do so and training, and you get put on a very important list with the police.


Its about giving the Citizens of the USA the ability and chance to defend themselves against a Government backed Military or police force that they could use to impose on the Public. The Founding fathers did a really interesting and good job about implementing a system of checks and balances and safeguarding against corruption. Thats why Presidents can only do 2 terms in Office.

Think of it like this, the UK get forced to stay in the EU, it the deploys its EU army compromising of various people from across the EU into the UK with a view to overthrow the democratically elected UK Government. How would we as a public be able to defend against such abuse of power and tyranny? (and funny how the non democratic EU wanted an Army, with no accountability and answers to themselves... its like the Sturmabeitlung all over again).


Madness - would be interested to know who is trying to incite a race war/violent clashes of groups in the UK and for what reason
The mainstream media, for the money, and the Left as a way of stripping power from the people for a bigger more powerful socialist Government.
 
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