Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Chelonian

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Non compliance with the advice will lead to enforcement. Mass gatherings in honey-pot areas will almost certainly lead to harsher enforcement. Problem is that emergency legislation which would normally have been scrutinised for over six months has been rolled out in less than three days.

The phrase "lockdown" annoys me. Nobody in the UK is locked down in the way that citizens of Spain, Italy and Germany have been.
 

A350-800

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Just thinking without transport won't some people have to go to shops by exercising, my car battery is flat due to not being used and I live in a rural area so the food shop where I need to get things is conveniently 4 miles away, my bicycle is also at my dad's house so I will either have to walk or run to get there!
 

Chelonian

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...I live in a rural area so the food shop where I need to get things is conveniently 4 miles away,
I collect essential groceries and medication from my closest local Co-op and pharmacy which are one mile distant and uphill. I currently sprint up the hill to do this because it combines daily exercise, essential shopping and supporting vulnerable neighbours, so that's three boxes ticked.
A nearby beach would be my choice for a run but I avoid it now even though I could legitimately argue that it is almost on my doorstep.

To be honest, the probability of Police being ärsey if given a reasonable explanation is perhaps remote; for the time being anyway.
 

Harry McRunFast

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Chelonian

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I admit that my lifelong immediate reaction to just about every rule until now has been How can I swerve this to my own advantage?

The roads are empty so I could legitimately cycle for miles on a training ride as "daily exercise", enjoying doing so in a much safer environment than usual. Plenty of others are doing so. The expensive Bianchi, Colnago and S Works bikes I see aren't being ridden to a shop to pick up essential groceries.
But exploiting current advice goes against the spirit of what we are all supposed to do, which is to stay home. :(
 

thirdtry

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I admit that my lifelong immediate reaction to just about every rule until now has been How can I swerve this to my own advantage?

The roads are empty so I could legitimately cycle for miles on a training ride as "daily exercise", enjoying doing so in a much safer environment than usual. Plenty of others are doing so. The expensive Bianchi, Colnago and S Works bikes I see aren't being ridden to a shop to pick up essential groceries.
But exploiting current advice goes against the spirit of what we are all supposed to do, which is to stay home. :(
Chelonian am I right in remembering you have a horse? Going back to an old account I had on here some years ago where you mentioned it.

If so, how do you exercise it and can you ride it under current legislation? Surely its welfare is essential and could technically be your commute on your errands?
 

A350-800

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I admit that my lifelong immediate reaction to just about every rule until now has been How can I swerve this to my own advantage?

The roads are empty so I could legitimately cycle for miles on a training ride as "daily exercise", enjoying doing so in a much safer environment than usual. Plenty of others are doing so. The expensive Bianchi, Colnago and S Works bikes I see aren't being ridden to a shop to pick up essential groceries.
But exploiting current advice goes against the spirit of what we are all supposed to do, which is to stay home. :(

I really appreciate the need to follow rules and stop the spread of the virus. However i also agree with those questioning a potential ban of exercise as the process of exercising outside on your own without anyone else is not a dangerous activity, and therefore the justifications for it need to be explained more fully if it happens. If they do show evidence that running in your own whilst socially distanced is harmful I would stop it immediately; i worry that because of the actions of some individuals they will punish the innocent and I realise in an epidemic they may have to do that but I fear public sentiment towards the government and police, which is important to keep on side, with begin to fall away.
I understand exercise isn't necessary for survival and that there are more important things at the moment, but I know people in abusive relationships or with mental health issues where this could be very dangerous indeed as they rely on going outside, even for 10 minutes a day, for space. If they are stopped I can't see these people ever trusting the government again. I was on Twitter earlier and read the glee expressed in comments that some people have about the exercise or going outside ban. It occurred to me that most of these people have nothing to loose as they dont exercise anyway, their social shaming coupled with their virtue signalling is tiring and I worry this is a potential knee jerk reaction to make it look like the government is doing something or to please people like this. My parents both work on the front line in the nhs and my dad got what is almost certainly covid 19 last week; the government still has no immediate plans to give his gp surgery any more PPE because apparently being with a patient for less than 15 minutes is low risk!
 

Rob20

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I really appreciate the need to follow rules and stop the spread of the virus. However i also agree with those questioning a potential ban of exercise as the process of exercising outside on your own without anyone else is not a dangerous activity, and therefore the justifications for it need to be explained more fully if it happens. If they do show evidence that running in your own whilst socially distanced is harmful I would stop it immediately; i worry that because of the actions of some individuals they will punish the innocent and I realise in an epidemic they may have to do that but I fear public sentiment towards the government and police, which is important to keep on side, with begin to fall away.
I understand exercise isn't necessary for survival and that there are more important things at the moment, but I know people in abusive relationships or with mental health issues where this could be very dangerous indeed as they rely on going outside, even for 10 minutes a day, for space. If they are stopped I can't see these people ever trusting the government again. I was on Twitter earlier and read the glee expressed in comments that some people have about the exercise or going outside ban. It occurred to me that most of these people have nothing to loose as they dont exercise anyway, their social shaming coupled with their virtue signalling is tiring and I worry this is a potential knee jerk reaction to make it look like the government is doing something or to please people like this. My parents both work on the front line in the nhs and my dad got what is almost certainly covid 19 last week; the government still has no immediate plans to give his gp surgery any more PPE because apparently being with a patient for less than 15 minutes is low risk!
It requires zero justification. The reason for stopping exercising once a day outside the home is not because they see that as a risk of spreading, but people still aren't playing ball. So basically everyone stays in unless for essentials. The government are making decisions for the best of us, but the public still think they know better, so it requires zero justification in my eyes.

How can we make people play ball, right anybody out for any reason other than essentials and travelling to work etc, you're getting prosecuted. Don't like it, feel free to complain from inside your house. Anyone who turns against the Police or Government over this need to take a long hard look at where the problem really is. The public have been spoon fed what we need to do to have the best chance at beating this and still soo many people cannot play ball.

If further restrictions get imposed, if the military get called in to assist policing of this, the British Public should hang their heads in shame. I appreciate its a minority, but this minority will make things a whole lot worse for everyone.

Can't wait for the complaints of our Police Forces heavy handiness as well, which will inevitably follow all this -banghead-.

Damn you, you've triggered me on such a lovely day. But kudos to your parents for the work their doing and I hope you're Dad makes a full recovery! I have a cousin who's been a Paramedic for a good 4-5 years now and am immensely in awe of the work they do daily. Up the NHS :D:D:D
 

Chelonian

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Chelonian am I right in remembering you have a horse?
Yep, a working horse on Dartmoor. Bridget has retired to North Devon and I now have a mahoosive Clydesdale called Bella who has a hoof size comparable to a dinner plate. :)
Basically she is my 'company car' for my second job which is located on the northern moors.
But I might move her down to my home location on the South Devon coast as I've been offered a free paddock.

For my day job I'm working from home and avoiding driving anywhere just now. Horseback would be an effective way of carrying essential grocery supplies for neighbours who cannot get out themselves or who cannot get a supermarket delivery slot.

However i also agree with those questioning a potential ban of exercise...
As do I. Last week I listened to Lord Sumption's dissection of the advice and law on current circumstances. I'm much happier that sensible, measured challenges are being made to the restrictions on our liberties.

Personally, I'm taking a pragmatic view. For sure the 'daily exercise' of someone aged 80 years might be a stroll of 100 metres from their front door. For someone else it might be a 10 mile run.
Regardless of my personal opinions about the 'rights and wrongs' of legislation and official advice I intend to park them for another time.
If a Police officer was not satisfied with my reason for being out and about and instructed me to return home I would comply rather than wasting his or her time with a theoretical argument about my civil rights.

Sincerely hope that your dad is soon on the mend.
 

thirdtry

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I will happen, HMG are now using data tracking from mobile phones to see population movements, the facts don't lie.
Personally fully behind this; I annoy my more 'civil rights' lefty type pals by holding the mindset that anything in the name of our safety and welfare (or security) is fair game. If you're not doing wrong then you don't need to worry.

That said, it does raise the interesting debate about Data Rights. The UK in particular kicked up quite a fuss about Big Data and its use, which contributed to GDPR and all that, and now HMG is essentially using said big data to track the population. Going to be lots of fun watching a certain sector of the public kick off when they find out.
 

Rkec

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It requires zero justification. The reason for stopping exercising once a day outside the home is not because they see that as a risk of spreading, but people still aren't playing ball.
Do you mean it is now a point about control rather than clinical need? If that is what you meant, I actually think that is now the case for some politicians. I have been staying in because I have mostly worked from home anyway. When I heard Matt Hancock this morning laying down a challenge to stay in or else today, hell yeh I'm going out.

I can't see any clinical need to ban exercise, it's not based on any data that has been placed in the public domain. No effects of a total ban would be seen for 3 weeks, we are coping now and next week is meant to be the peak - why do they need to reduce the numbers for 3 weeks time? We need to remember that we need this to go through the population, otherwise we never come out.

The Excel Centre in London doesn't have any customers. London hospitals are well within capacity. Add to that the effects of the first lock down should be being seen from next week.

The Government are lying about people going out and forcing the lock down to be extended. The Government's own model that they were waving about 6 weeks ago showed quite clearly that there would be many more deaths if we did nothing, but it would all be over from start to finish in 2-3 months. How on earth they can now claim it will last longer is beyond me. If anything, the rest of us should be cheering them on as they catch it.

In about 6-8 weeks time, private pension companies are warning that they may not be able to continue to pay pensions. Anyone want to see how many pensioners that is going to kill off?
 

Chelonian

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In about 6-8 weeks time, private pension companies are warning that they may not be able to continue to pay pensions. Anyone want to see how many pensioners that is going to kill off?
Funnily enough earlier today I had a conversation with my neighbour who is on a v. advantageous BT pension which was guaranteed and formally underwritten by HM Government at privatisation.
 

A350-800

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It requires zero justification. The reason for stopping exercising once a day outside the home is not because they see that as a risk of spreading, but people still aren't playing ball. So basically everyone stays in unless for essentials. The government are making decisions for the best of us, but the public still think they know better, so it requires zero justification in my eyes.

How can we make people play ball, right anybody out for any reason other than essentials and travelling to work etc, you're getting prosecuted. Don't like it, feel free to complain from inside your house. Anyone who turns against the Police or Government over this need to take a long hard look at where the problem really is. The public have been spoon fed what we need to do to have the best chance at beating this and still soo many people cannot play ball.

If further restrictions get imposed, if the military get called in to assist policing of this, the British Public should hang their heads in shame. I appreciate its a minority, but this minority will make things a whole lot worse for everyone.

Can't wait for the complaints of our Police Forces heavy handiness as well, which will inevitably follow all this -banghead-.

Damn you, you've triggered me on such a lovely day. But kudos to your parents for the work their doing and I hope you're Dad makes a full recovery! I have a cousin who's been a Paramedic for a good 4-5 years now and am immensely in awe of the work they do daily. Up the NHS :D:D:D
With respect all governemt decisions need justification to relevant authorities because all these measures have consequences like increased domestic violence, I am mot saying they have to justify them to me because I am just a citizen and that would be arrogant and entitiled and like you said if the experts think these risks are outweighed by the benefits then that's fine, it's just they must do it to stop the virus and for no other reasons, like perhaps shielding their lack of ppe for front line workers or lack of testing.
 

A350-800

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It requires zero justification. The reason for stopping exercising once a day outside the home is not because they see that as a risk of spreading, but people still aren't playing ball. So basically everyone stays in unless for essentials. The government are making decisions for the best of us, but the public still think they know better, so it requires zero justification in my eyes.

How can we make people play ball, right anybody out for any reason other than essentials and travelling to work etc, you're getting prosecuted. Don't like it, feel free to complain from inside your house. Anyone who turns against the Police or Government over this need to take a long hard look at where the problem really is. The public have been spoon fed what we need to do to have the best chance at beating this and still soo many people cannot play ball.

If further restrictions get imposed, if the military get called in to assist policing of this, the British Public should hang their heads in shame. I appreciate its a minority, but this minority will make things a whole lot worse for everyone.

Can't wait for the complaints of our Police Forces heavy handiness as well, which will inevitably follow all this -banghead-.

Damn you, you've triggered me on such a lovely day. But kudos to your parents for the work their doing and I hope you're Dad makes a full recovery! I have a cousin who's been a Paramedic for a good 4-5 years now and am immensely in awe of the work they do daily. Up the NHS :D:D:D
I also worry that if they do things without explaining them fully to the public our police forces will have a hard time stopping people pushing the envelope now and in the future when this finishes, the police have worked very hard in some communities to build up trust and measures deemed over zealous or nececessary but not explia ed byt he govenrme t may erode their hard work. Sadly in Italy and Spain there is unrest. We can't have double standards from people in authority too, like the chief medical officer in Scotland visiting her second home. I also resent the press pushing the police to take harder measures and when they do criticising them for being over zealous. I feel the government has to justify the decisions they make so that enforcing them is easier for the people on the ground who have to do that. Not justifying them also feeds this media storm that the government are hard line oppressors stripping our liberties away for fun, which I don't agree with
 
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A350-800

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Yep, a working horse on Dartmoor. Bridget has retired to North Devon and I now have a mahoosive Clydesdale called Bella who has a hoof size comparable to a dinner plate. :)
Basically she is my 'company car' for my second job which is located on the northern moors.
But I might move her down to my home location on the South Devon coast as I've been offered a free paddock.

For my day job I'm working from home and avoiding driving anywhere just now. Horseback would be an effective way of carrying essential grocery supplies for neighbours who cannot get out themselves or who cannot get a supermarket delivery slot.



As do I. Last week I listened to Lord Sumption's dissection of the advice and law on current circumstances. I'm much happier that sensible, measured challenges are being made to the restrictions on our liberties.

Personally, I'm taking a pragmatic view. For sure the 'daily exercise' of someone aged 80 years might be a stroll of 100 metres from their front door. For someone else it might be a 10 mile run.
Regardless of my personal opinions about the 'rights and wrongs' of legislation and official advice I intend to park them for another time.
If a Police officer was not satisfied with my reason for being out and about and instructed me to return home I would comply rather than wasting his or her time with a theoretical argument about my civil rights.

Sincerely hope that your dad is soon on the mend.
Yep, a working horse on Dartmoor. Bridget has retired to North Devon and I now have a mahoosive Clydesdale called Bella who has a hoof size comparable to a dinner plate. :)
Basically she is my 'company car' for my second job which is located on the northern moors.
But I might move her down to my home location on the South Devon coast as I've been offered a free paddock.

For my day job I'm working from home and avoiding driving anywhere just now. Horseback would be an effective way of carrying essential grocery supplies for neighbours who cannot get out themselves or who cannot get a supermarket delivery slot.



As do I. Last week I listened to Lord Sumption's dissection of the advice and law on current circumstances. I'm much happier that sensible, measured challenges are being made to the restrictions on our liberties.

Personally, I'm taking a pragmatic view. For sure the 'daily exercise' of someone aged 80 years might be a stroll of 100 metres from their front door. For someone else it might be a 10 mile run.
Regardless of my personal opinions about the 'rights and wrongs' of legislation and official advice I intend to park them for another time.
If a Police officer was not satisfied with my reason for being out and about and instructed me to return home I would comply rather than wasting his or her time with a theoretical argument about my civil rights.

Sincerely hope that your dad is soon on the mend.
Thankyou for both wishing my dad well, he is getting better but he is a fit guy and he says this is the most ill he has ever felt. I apologise if I gave the impression I am not taking this issue seriously enough and I am doing my best to volunteer and help out but I just worry about some people I know who will really suffer if this comes into force,

Thanks :)
 

A350-800

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]I also worry that if they do things without explaining them fully to the public our police forces will have a hard time stopping people pushing the envelope now and in the future when this finishes, the police have worked very hard in some communities to build up trust and measures deemed over zealous or nececessary but not explia ed byt he govenrme t may erode their hard work. Sadly in Italy and Spain there is unrest. We can't have double standards from people in authority too, like the chief medical officer in Scotland visiting her second home. I also resent the press pushing the police to take harder measures and when they do criticising them for being over zealous. I feel the government has to justify the decisions they make so that enforcing them is easier for the people on the ground who have to do that. Not justifying them also feeds this media storm that the government are hard line oppressors stripping our liberties away for fun, which I don't agree with[/QUOTE]
 
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