Employer Problems

729troopRM

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Probably one for Ninja this one;

I am currently in the process of applying for RMR however, I have hit a stumbling block with my employer. They have refused to give me permission to join at this time as they say they have too many people in the TA/Reserves at present. They will put me on a waiting list to which I am 9th on the list and said I can join when others drop out etc.

The problem is I am 31 and this year is the last year for me to be able to join RMR due to the age restrictions and I know that the it will take a lot longer than a year for them to get to my place on the list.

My question is; are my employers allowed to make this refusal?

Additional info: employer is London Fire Brigade if it makes a difference??
 

Carl1PRM

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With regards to mobilisation, an employer can seek exemption/deferral if they believe their absence would cause serious harm to their business.

So maybe they could argue the same thing about whether or not they can refuse/defer your application on the same grounds.

I know there are some regulations like the Reserve Forces (Safeguard of Employment) Act 1985, but don?t know if that information is contained within

In the past, both the fire brigade and the police had issues with letting their employees become reservists, but this has been relaxed a lot more recently.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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It's entirely at the discretion of your primary employer whether or not they permit employees to join the Armed Forces Reserves as there are obvious areas in which there can be a conflict of interest, particularly in the emergency services.

Many civilian employers give priority to trained ranks with former military service joining the reserves. My local police force only permit 2% of their workforce to join the reserves & likewise have a waiting list, but the age issue is unfortunately not a priority concern for civilian employers as they cannot show preference based on age.
 

729troopRM

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It's entirely at the discretion of your primary employer whether or not they permit employees to join the Armed Forces Reserves as there are obvious areas in which there can be a conflict of interest, particularly in the emergency services.

Many civilian employers give priority to trained ranks with former military service joining the reserves. My local police force only permit 2% of their workforce to join the reserves & likewise have a waiting list, but the age issue is unfortunately not a priority concern for civilian employers as they cannot show preference based on age.
Thanks Ninja, not the answer I wanted but an answer all the same, thank you.
 

lawton86

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Ninja... I thought that your employers didn't have a choice and that's why the afco sometimes notifys them? What about the solicitors that work purely for the reserves to keep them being treated fairly etc. sure I have read that there's nothing they can do, or am I mistaken? I'm a joiner so I'd be easily replaceable for the time I'd be away. I was hoping for sept 13 selection when things are easier at home but now wondering about my git of a boss.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Have a read through the Sabre website. You must notify your primary employer as a condition of entry & your employer may state you cannot join. The legal bit is if they say yes but then raise repeated objections if you're mobilised.

Many civilian employers have a policy that limits numbers in the Reserves due to conflict of interest, regardless of whether the employee considers they have spare capacity. I'd advise caution if suggesting your employer can easily spare you to deploy as they may agree wholeheartedly when it comes to making savings.
 

lawton86

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I've had a look through but cant see anything about they can reject. I have found this http://www.sabre.mod.uk/FAQs/Reserv...ect-to-my-being-a-Reservist.aspx#.T4g2v7d5mc0
This sounds like if your already employed and wish to join. Unless I'm not looking correctly.
Yes I would tread carefully, I'm very friendly with the main contractor so doubt I'd be replaced permanently. I just meant there's lots of people who could fill in temp. Any chance you could find a link that states they could refuse ninja? If you have time of course. Thanks
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Any chance you could find a link that states they could refuse ninja? If you have time of course. Thanks
An employer cannot stop you doing as you wish in your own spare time - but we would strongly advise negotiation rather than a self righteous approach if you rely on your primary job for income as there will undoubtely be a time when you need to be absent in your "works time".

As stated, within the contract of employment some employers have a policy regarding their employees joining the Reserve Forces which is the first thing to check in your contract. Other employers may need convincing it's mutually beneficial.

Under most contracts of employment, in accordance with employment law. full time employers will agree to pay you a set wage for a set number of hours worked per day/week/month/year and agreed periods of absence (usually leave/holidays).

If the employee doesn't turn up for work in breach of their contract, the employer is totally within their rights, to dismiss the employee, provided they follow a statutory warning procedure.

It's no good claiming "I'm in the RMR & my country needs me" if your employer has a policy that has not been followed or if the employee mistakenly believes the employer is obliged to grant time away without consultation & prior agreement to permit a degree of variance in the contract of employment.

Ultimately, the advice is to negotiate & convince the employer it's a good idea otherwise the individual should perhaps consider joining full time & quitting their civilian job .
 

lawton86

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Fully agree, best catch them in a good mood then! Many thanks
 

Ninja_Stoker

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It's an interesting topic which I'm glad has been raised & one which some could come unstuck, perhaps mistakenly thinking that working for the Crown gives some kind of indemnity.

It reminds me of working at Oxford URNU when one of the students got a parking ticket on the unit minibus "But I was on official business" he moaned. "Good point" I replied "I'll deduct it from your URNU wages".
 

lawton86

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The same thing has happened to us at work, we are currently upgrading council property's. We try park as close as possible to save the lugging of tools etc, sometimes means we park in resident permit holders spaces. Although working for the council doesn't make us exempt to tickets!

I don't post much, I'm more of an observer and like to keep up to date. Forgive me for asking again though but you say about how we have a contract to abide by and things could get awkward if we don't stick to it. But isn't that why sabre is there? To protect us when work do become a problem unfairly? Providing id give enough notice of training and deployments surely there's not much they could do? Or is there?
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Forgive me for asking again though but you say about how we have a contract to abide by and things could get awkward if we don't stick to it. But isn't that why sabre is there? To protect us when work do become a problem unfairly? Providing id give enough notice of training and deployments surely there's not much they could do? Or is there?
Sabre is there to help you & your employer, We notify your employer you are in the Reserves.

If you want to go on exercise or training with the reserves, most people arrange it during their holidays or, if your employer has a specific policy, they may permit a few weeks absence from wok without leave for training purposes. It's not an entitlement. You cannot demand time off simply because you want to do a part time job - you can ask & equally they can say no.

Once training is completed there are different types of mobilisation - Compulsory mobilisation in times of grave national crisis (this last happened wholesale during the first Gulf War). Employers can appeal against it, but depending on the circumstances, the service can override the employer & compensate them to ensure your job is still there when you return, hence the legal support offered.

Reserves can also volunteer for mobilisation which usually takes you out of the civilian workplace for a year - 3 months with a unit pre-deployment, 6 months deployed & 3 months leave & resettlement upon return. If you volunteer to deploy, you need your employers consent - if your employer says you cannot be spared then the choice is yours, but the employer is certainly not obliged to keep a job for you if you voluntarily deploy, so far better it is agreed mutually if you want to keep your job. Your employer will be notified of the type of mobilisation, so you can't claim it's compulsory if you put your name forward as a volunteer.
 

lawton86

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Right I see. So worst case scenario... I got to phase 1, 2 week course at lympstone, had no holidays remaining and they refused me unpaid leave.... I have the choice of going anyway then get sacked, or not go and basically undo 8 months hard graft then get back trooped or just quit. Can fully understand why now. Cheers
 
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