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EU vote

Discussion in 'Jollies Bar' started by ThreadpigeonsAlpha, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. R

    R Well-Known Member

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    @Camz Big Sigh, There are literally dozens of examples as to why the EU was a political union and all the mechanisms are designed to build an unelected European superstate, If I dont like my government or its representatives I atleast like the ability to vote for another candidate, which we cant for the European commission. The EU is literally a recreation of the GDR structure.

    As for the economic case, the UK's EU membership fee is currently £18,600,000,000 annually. The rebate is £5,600,000,000. EU spending on UK projects is £4,000,000,000, So our net contribution is £9,000,000,000 annually, still think we trade tariff free? WTO isn't looking so bad now is it?

    There are thousands of freedom of information requests, EU court rulings and official studies/papers on the web from official sources as to the state powers we have given away to Brussels, if in doubt do your research as I have. Before coming back with a fake news..people are not informed...facebook....etc response.
     
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  2. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    People voted for various reasons. You cannot demand that just because hey didn’t vote your way, that they are stupid or made the wrong choice. The people voted for it. And the EU has ignored many a referendum before. Which should strike alarm bells.

    We already went to the EU and asked for reform. Poland and Hungary are already facing ramifications from the EU because they want reform but we’re refused so have just gone and done their own thing, in accordance to what their people want. They serve the people. Not the other way around.

    You can’t be serious? Look at what happened in the 1930s. Power without accountability, no way to challenge and appeal against a rich elite bureaucracy who make our laws.
    The Government serves the people, not the other way around. That’s the whole idea of a democractic and free society. Otherwise we fall into chaos. People fight and die to have the society we have and we are sleep walking into the authoritarian behemoth of the EU.


    Wrong. There’s some more scaremongering. You hear that on the BBC? The UK wrote the 1972 communities law which declared EU law superseded UK law. (Which is absolutely abhorrent, horrendous and a complete failure for the People. And a disgusting betrayal to the People of the UK)
    “UK courts are required not to enforce UK laws to the extent that they are incompatible with EU obligations.”
    Revoke that. Job done.


    Mate. I have literally written loads on it in this thread and many others. What are you failing to see? Feel free to back up some of your claims, that aren’t anecdotal.
     
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  3. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    With respect, your view might well be shared by Tony Blair but not by me.
    Leaving aside the Brexit issue I and others campaigned in recent years in Devon for residents of nursing homes for Elderly Mentally Infirm people to exercise their right to vote if they so chose.

    Many were not entered on the electoral register (a legal requirement) by the nursing homes. This was usually due to a combination of apathy and the unilateral decision by staff that the residents were not capable of voting.

    But the staff did not have the legal authority to make such a decision and were depriving residents of their liberty by obstructing their right to vote if they so chose.

    I and others have subsequently passed entertaining afternoons while, for example, a 90-year-old lady with moderate dementia picked her choice of vote based on the candidate "having a nice smile".
    Her right to vote and her decision making process was no more, nor less valid than that of someone with supposed intellect and an in-depth knowledge of politics and economics.
     
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  4. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    @Camz feel free to go through my posts and counter my points. Considering you ignored them and I have countered yours...


    Everyone loves a good debate. ;)
     
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  5. Wings

    Wings Parachute Regiment

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    The only reason the "cleverest" people cant decide is because the remainers block all the deals and the leavers do because the deals that are put forward arent the reason the bulk of leavers voted to leave. The proposed deal gives the eu 39 billion was it? We wanted to leave and trade with the world. You really think the eu will not get worried about how much we buy from them if we just go? It is a risk but so many countries have offered their goods already. We shouldnt be bullied by them
     
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  6. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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  7. rkec

    rkec New Member

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    Can you come back with your numbers for those who are plenty? Are we talking millions? Thousands?

    Illegally funded by the leave campaign? Can you point to the prosecution for me?

    As for the pound dropping that's a bit more complicated than you might think. It actually dropped twice that year against the dollar, once on referendum night by 7% and then in September 2016 by 9%. It dropped in September because newly appointed Chancellor Hammond said that previous Chancellor's Osborne figures about eradicating the deficit by the end of that Parliament were complete rat sheet. Nothing to do with Brexit.

    EU Army is gathering pace today. That Army that would never happen, pure fantasy Nick Clegg said. An EU army would be flattened by Russia in a Conventional war, even if people would ever fight for it - something I doubt. The US? China? both would be Naval threats not Army's. Plus they'd be using nukes if it was serious.

    I can't think of a single external threat to the EU. Notice there I said external.

    The question is then, who is an EU Army meant to protect us from?

    That's right, some country inside the EU that steps out of line is the only logical reason for it.
     
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  8. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    I 'm considering placing a bet that if Article 50 is delayed beyond 29 March 2019 for any reason the UK will remain in the EU.
     
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  9. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    It’s not the first time the EU has ignored the will of the People. As much as I want out, I also have it in my mind that it will never happen.

    Exactly. Can we remember the last time an unelected, Undemocratic, appointed Government, with unaccountable power held the power of a military force answerable only to itself? Can we all just have a little think about the last time that happened....? I am pretty certain it was the 1930s....
     
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  10. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    “Greenlandic European Communities membership referendum, 1982, 23 February 1982, 53.0% against. In 1973, Greenland joined the European communities as part of Denmark.

    However, after the establishment of home-rule and eurosceptic Siumut winning the 1979 Greenlandic parliamentary election, a referendum on membership was agreed upon, in which the voters rejected remaining part of the communities.

    This resulted in Greenland negotiating the terms of the its separation from the EU, resulting in the Greenland Treaty, and Greenland's leaving the communities in 1985.”

    “The Treaty arranged for the exit of Greenland and amended earlier treaties of the European Communities. As such, it is an integral part of the constitutional basis of the European Union. The decision to withdraw was made after Greenland had achieved self-rule, was made to protect Greenland's rights to its fishing waters and to limit external influence.

    The Treaty entered into force on 1 January 1985, and on 1 February 1985, Greenland formally withdrew from the European Communities.”
     
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  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    At 0810 I listened to Liam Fox interviewed on BBC Radio 4.

    He stated that a No Deal exit would be a "very poor" outcome but that attempting to delay or deny the referendum outcome promised would be "calamitous" for UK politics.
    I agree wholeheartedly.
     
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  12. Rover

    Rover Moderator

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    My post No 54.

    I can speak from personal experience on dealing with the EU in Brussels.

    A few years ago I was approached to represent a non European country on a major security matter. I went to Brussels for a meeting with the relevant ‘Commission’ which included their ‘Head of Security’ for that particular area.

    The outcome being that they had no interest in assisting in improving the security situation. Perhaps the fact that two major European countries stood to lose financially should the proposals I put forward be implemented may have had a reason in the negative response! Who can say??

    Nor was I impressed by the ‘Head of Security’ who every time he spoke showed his lack of knowledge of the area and the security situation on the ground. He having never visited the area whilst I had.

    Do I have any faith in the EU? NO.

    Should we be part of the EU? NO.

    As pointed out by previous post the EU is a non elected gravy train with no interest or understanding of Democracy.
    -banghead--banghead-
     
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  13. Moonduster

    Moonduster Active Member

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    As I said last week, the next conflict in Europe will be caused by a country seeking to regain it's independence from the EU.

    For obvious reasons the German army has maintained a very low key status over the last 75 years. It will be very interesting to see what role they take in a new EU army. My guess is it will be a major one!
     
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  14. rkec

    rkec New Member

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    Very true. The German Army is struggling pal. If anything, if the brown stuff hit the fan, Berlin might not be in control of the German Army as it stands. Recruitment is down, soldiers are forming their own their groups.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rating-german-special-forces-assassinate-top/

    Berlin is trying to link citizenship to serving, so if you are a migrant and server in the Army then you have a higher chance of citizenship.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20180802/ge...ing-foreign-eu-nationals-to-boost-recruitment

    All the signs are there that the Army and soldiers may not be loyal to Berlin right now and it appears to be getting worse.

    German Army v EU Army is more realistic than EU Army v Russian/Chinese/Syrianian Army.
     
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  15. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    While we are still waiting for a response from the Remain voters:



    Was reading an about Prorogue Government whereby the Queen(Crown) would enter Parliament, with presumably some form of protection from the Military (who serves the crown, not the Parliament) and suspend it for a set time, during which all bills in process will cease.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...uspend-parliament-yvette-cooper-a8742616.html






    Notice how King Charles II referred to their “Privilege”, and they stop talking as he entered.



    “Go again to this King, offer him once more our terms, though God knows he should be well acquainted with them by now, tell him he may sit upon his throne but this country will be governed by Parliament, and Parliament will be elected by the people.”



    “An immovable Government is more obnoxious than an immovable King”
     
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  16. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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  17. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Where have all the remainers gone?
     
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  18. rkec

    rkec New Member

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    I love it. If the EU now negotiate, all those remainers who said the EU wouldn't will look stupid. If they don't negotiate, we are leaving on WTO.

    Can't lose.
     
  19. Wings

    Wings Parachute Regiment

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    It really annoys me that mps who areas strongly voted leave are going for remain options.
    Remain people shouting for another vote already, people saying it isnt working.

    The goverment havent once put out what leavers voted for. Strong exit our own rules immigration court fishing. Why do people think we are doomed if we leave? One of the strongest countries in influence yet we wont survive on a larger stage when india america new zealand canada have already said they are waiting for us. You think volkswagen will let this happen?
    Jog on
     
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  20. rkec

    rkec New Member

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    I think some of them would welcome chaos after brexit on WTO. Some of them may actively try to create chaos. Some of them crave for foreign Courts to rule ours. 80 years ago, that kind of behaviour would have seen you banged up at best.

    Alexandre Dumas
    “The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
     
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