Dismiss Notice
'Users of this forum are reminded they should not discuss performance of individual attendees at PRMC or in Recruit Training for PERsonal SECurity and in observance of Diversity & Inclusion legislation'.

European Migrant Crisis- Solutions?

Discussion in 'Current & Military Affairs Discussion Forum.' started by DD, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. VerlorenHoop

    VerlorenHoop Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Posts:
    165
    App Stage:
    TMU
    Aren't we in danger there of having a quota system like the USA in the early 20th century?

    Obviously I'd prefer it if everyone migrated legally. That would be super-cool of them and the majority of people do that. In some cases that's not doable, and where there are legitimate reasons for people to be fleeing or leaving a given area (and I would count severe economic depression among those) I think it reasonable that we do something about that. I don't believe, for example, that my Tunisian friend who snuck into Italy really had any right to do so, as he was only looking for work. Had be been fleeing some kind of catastrophe, however, then he might reasonably have been seeking asylum. Is it right that one country should have to deal with the highest number of asylum applications just because they're geographically nearer to the problems?

    In the event that they are genuine asylum seekers, I don't see how we can possibly, in all good conscience, put a cap on the number of people we allow in. That's what the USA did in the 30s, and thousands of Jews fleeing persecution in Europe were refused. I appreciate this is a slippery slope but it just seems like a bizarre way of doing things.

    Of course, I would prefer a grand total of zero illegal immigrants. I don't like illegal things, by and large. But I'm not going to pull a number out of my *text deleted* and offer a home to those who happened to get on the fastest boat out of Libya.

    Edit: 2am wall-of-text is best wall-of-text

    Edit 2: If the argument (and I'm not saying that it is, but I hear this a lot) is that immigrants are a drain on the system, why the hell would you drain your system by building a great big sodding fence and then guarding that fence? How are you the winner in that scenario?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Posts:
    4,954
    Then that renders all of your other points somewhat muted because no matter what the answers to those questions, you still won't "in good conscience" have a limit no matter what the answers are - I disagree but that's just my opinion.
     
  3. VerlorenHoop

    VerlorenHoop Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Posts:
    165
    App Stage:
    TMU
    I'm only talking about the ones with genuine cause to flee there though. All my other points were about immigration in general. I think. Why am I awake?
     
  4. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Posts:
    4,954
    Fair one, I'm also struggling a bit to keep my eyes open too -yawn-. Will have another read in the morning and quote you more accurately.
     
  5. VerlorenHoop

    VerlorenHoop Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Posts:
    165
    App Stage:
    TMU
    Christ, I'm not sure either of us wants that. Until then
     
  6. TheGeek

    TheGeek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Posts:
    1,776
    App Stage:
    TMU
    The poverty in the UK may be a different issue on a political policy level, but in an on the ground level it's very hard to justify taking money from the most vulnerable in your own communities and spending it on those who shouldn't be here.

    It may sound harsh, but if you can't clean up the problems you have you really shouldn't compound them.

    Geek
     
  7. john lewis

    john lewis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Posts:
    1,198
    App Stage:
    Passed Interview
    Just a question, what's to stop people who support these terrorist organisations slipping in to our country if we open the borders and allow them in? If they've got no history of terrorist convictions good luck with that one lads. Few issues I have, why do France have migrant camps so close to the border :s wouldn't it make more sense to move them to a remote inland area. Also as much as I believe people need help were no longer the strong economic country we once were, we can't afford to deal with situations like this when we're cutting down the nhs! Think Britain needs to bring in some law where you have to have been a citizen for say 10 years before using the nhs, and before being considered for benefits
     
  8. TheGeek

    TheGeek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Posts:
    1,776
    App Stage:
    TMU
    Benefits definitely, but then again I'm also for the view if you haven't added to the pot you don't get from the pot. Making sure those who've never worked can't claim benefits for not working.

    Mind you I'm also for giving food stamps in place of cash for those on benefits.

    Geek
     
  9. john lewis

    john lewis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Posts:
    1,198
    App Stage:
    Passed Interview
    Yeah I also have no issue with it being given to people who can't get a job, be it medical reasons or carer responsibilities!
     
  10. TheGeek

    TheGeek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Posts:
    1,776
    App Stage:
    TMU
    Fair enough mate I'll get behind that. But another annoyance to me is, if you're on benefits you're using taxpayer money, if you have a smoking habit or a drinking habit, then the taxpayer is paying for your habit.

    So I don't think you should be allowed to feed those habits on the taxpayer. Because in the end, we'll also pay for the treatment it requires.

    But that's a different topic *text deleted*

    Geek
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  11. Old Man

    Old Man Ex-Matelot

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    2,079
    People have always moved from place to place to better their lives.

    Let 'em in. Let 'em work. Let 'em be a part of what some of us were lucky enough to be born into.

    No houses? Build more houses.

    I hold no more duty of care to a British poor person than I do to a poor person from somewhere else.
     
    • Disagree. Disagree. x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  12. VerlorenHoop

    VerlorenHoop Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Posts:
    165
    App Stage:
    TMU
    There's already plenty of IS supporters and other dissidents in the country. If they wanted to carry out regular terror attacks, then they would. And we'd have almost no way of stopping them. Mercifully we're getting away with it. IS, however, are far more concerned with setting up their Caliphate than they are with dicking around in our public transport systems. In answer to your question - nothing stopping them, but what would draw them here?
    Do you agree that cutting down on the NHS is a good move?
    What about newborn babies? You monster.
     
  13. DD

    DD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Posts:
    1,052
    App Stage:
    Passed Recruiting Test
    Apologies for the delay in responce.
    I see your point, but we have got a humanitarian crisis right on our doorstep. I'd also wager that people travelling from Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan are considerably worse off than most of the people living poverty living in one of the world's wealthiest countries.

    Some interesting analysis of stats by The Guardian as well:
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis
     
  14. TheGeek

    TheGeek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Posts:
    1,776
    App Stage:
    TMU
    I'm not saying it's right mate. I'm merely pointing out how the voting public may view it, and really that's the point for polititians.

    Geek
     
  15. Pug

    Pug Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Posts:
    183
    App Stage:
    Passed PJFT
    This suggestion will probably throw up a few different problems, fundamentally I believe the only 'true' fix to this issue is to stabilize the countries of the refugees origin.

    Now while I think this is the morally correct choice I accept that the UK isn't capable of this alone but I believe that we did a good job in Afghanistan. From what limited things I have seen ( I haven't been there) I think it is a better place. What would be interesting to see is if there was a decrease in afghan refugees after we went there compared to before.

    Hopefully this would help the people seeking asylum from violent countries however it is just human nature to improve your own life. so this solution may not stop people who can get better jobs and wages in the UK. Then again if you stabilize a country the infrastructure would develop and with that business and the economy would grow which may stop other people leaving said country due to financial issues...

    Any thoughts?
     
  16. Pug

    Pug Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Posts:
    183
    App Stage:
    Passed PJFT
    Another thought could be that there is no solution...
    My thoughts behind this are there is limited resources/ money/ space on this planet.
    so say this planet's total is X and the amount of X that one person needs to have a good quality of life without fighting others for more is y.
    and then say 7 billion y = x
    then we are 0.2 billion y over the limit.
    Sure, you can become more efficient with how you share everything out and how you deal with it but at some point every one will have exactly the same amount of everything(perfect world).

    What i'm trying to say is there are alot more people around now days and most, due to the internet know what the can achieve ( no longer happy with what they have).
    I'm not saying we can or should cull the population.
    Just a thought really...
     
  17. Xerath

    Xerath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Posts:
    2,095
    Not sure if baiting, but...

    What about the ones who come here and don't work? Or they come here, find a menial job which any teenager who is desperate for cash would jump at, don't bother integrating into our society, and then preach hate on the streets of the UK?
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  18. DD

    DD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Posts:
    1,052
    App Stage:
    Passed Recruiting Test
    On the other side of the coin, this crisis may direct the public's view to the rising unseen poverty in the UK. What's also interesting is how politicians and the mainstream media seem to impose a certain perspective upon the public on crisis such as this one. I think our government to often plays to the perceptions of Joe Public. In this instance, it's peoples uncertainty about the economy and job prospects that the government is playing to, painting migrants as a key threat to these things.
     
  19. TheGeek

    TheGeek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Posts:
    1,776
    App Stage:
    TMU
    Indeed. I actually have no issue with economic migrants coming to work. If they're willing and able to work, let them.

    Geek
     
  20. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Posts:
    4,954
    Why is this country better off with 70m people in it over 50m people though?