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Feedback & Opinions - Tattoos, Piercings & Haircuts

Discussion in 'Current & Military Affairs Discussion Forum.' started by Ninja_Stoker, Jan 20, 2018.

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  1. All entry standards should remain the same as now

    46 vote(s)
    70.8%
  2. Tattoo regulations should remain.

    18 vote(s)
    27.7%
  3. Tattoo regulations should be changed

    9 vote(s)
    13.8%
  4. Body piercing regulation should apply equally

    11 vote(s)
    16.9%
  5. Gender specific hair regulations should remain

    16 vote(s)
    24.6%
  6. Hair regulations should apply equally (regardless of gender/ethnicity/religion)

    12 vote(s)
    18.5%
  7. Body piercing regulations should remain unchanged.

    17 vote(s)
    26.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. joeyjonser

    joeyjonser Member

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    *text deleted* if you can pass training,juniors or seniors then what does it matter if a corporal with hand tatts gives me an order personally id be looking at his rank slide. The trained ranks with tashes i gaze upon with envy because i end up looking like a sex offender when i try to grow facial hair.
     
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  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Agreed.

    It's an interesting one. I know of several young people, who claim one of the things that put them off joining the armed forces (apart from the obvious) is the fact they have trivial rules & regulations.

    My son said he wouldn't be prepared to get his hair cut to get a job as he didn't feel it relevant. Granted it could just be a wind-up, but it does make me wonder if we exclude people just for the sake of bloody-minded rules simply because "it's always been like this" rather than stop to consider whether it is really necessary to do the job.
     
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  3. arny01

    arny01 Ex Pongo.

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    I've always been of the opinion that our Armed forces should be the best of our society, and an environment which anyone can thrive and achieve great things. In my own case, I came from a broken home with a pretty crap childhood, bullied very badly all through my childhood.

    The Army gave me a sense of self pride, and taking the time to put a great deal of effort into ones appearance gave me a sense of worth. People would comment! "you look smart" and various other complementary comments. And I think that's important. There's also the discipline element too! The discipline to iron, wash and prepare your kit to a high standard says a lot.

    A question of interest to you @Ninja_Stoker as a careers advisor who has probably conducted countless interviews.

    If a candidate turned up for an interview smartly dressed in a suit and tie, well groomed and clearly made a big effort in his/her appearance, balancend against a candidate who turned up In jeans and t-shirt, unshaven, scraggy hair and made no effort into his/her appearance.

    Would this affect your opinion, or negativly impact the interview in any way??
     
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  4. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

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    Reading previous posts, I don’t think my views are going to be very popular but the question I would have is where do you draw the line? Grow your hair, fine; get a face tattoo, fine; get a nose ring, no problem; don’t iron your kit, why bother? None of these effect operational effectiveness, but even today people will judge how professional you are by how you look. It is naive to say it does not effect your ability to kill people, much of what we do involves defence engagement rather than close combat and many cultures view tattoos etc with real disdain.
    The Armed Forces have always held higher standards than society as a whole and as such, while I agree some standards may be in need of review, I also think that we must not accept every whim of society to effect how we conduct ourselves.
    As I say, maybe the view of a crusty old bloke, but perhaps an alternate view to consider.
     
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  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    A very valid question.

    When I underwent trainng as an interviewer we were briefed not to pre-judge. The phrase used was "avoid halo and horns".

    By this, we were instructed not to base our decisions on the state of their handwriting or spelling on the application form (when it was a paper application).

    Likewise there are applicants who come from financially and/or socially deprived areas.

    Many is the time I've interviewed a young lad clearly wearing his older brother or Dad's suit.

    Many recruiters will turn away people who turn up for interview looking scruffy or unkempt but over the years I've moderated my opinion on this. Some people are holding down jobs and have limited time to spare with regard attending tests and interviews, so they may well be on their way to or from work when they attend their selection interview.

    My personal opinion is to give the individual the benefit of the doubt. If there's no apparent reason for the individual to be wearing paint-spattered ripped jeans and teeshirt when applying for a job, then you should take that into overall consideration when making the selection decision, but at least hear them out. Similarly.if they are late without good reason, it will adversely affect the outcome unless they volunteer the reason and are appropriately apologetic.

    It's not a case of lowering standards, more a case of giving everyone a fair hearing. If females can look smart with long hair, earrings, facial tattoos whilst not wearing a suit, shirt & tie, so can blokes....That said, if I was applying for a job, I would arrive early, clean shaven, freshly washed and smartly dressed and I would strongly advise any other applicant likewise.
     
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  6. Old Man

    Old Man Ex-Matelot

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    Many people are of the 'take me as I am' school of thought. They're wrong.

    The majority of people judge others on their appearance. It's human nature. A factor of tribalism.

    Thus, if you're going to a job interview, because the prevailing opinion of 'smart' is a requirement, then smart it must be. If you're hoping to feel at ease in a pub full of bikers, a 3 piece suit may not be your best choice.

    The exceptions are for the true eccentrics among us but even then, their other qualities must be obvious. Like that Mr Einstein chappie.

    Long hair, to take one example, is a problem because some people think it's a problem. If the rules were changed to allow it, after the first flush of rebellion, most, if not all, would go back to moderate hairstyles.

    I used to spit and polish my steaming bats while I was on watch. All over. Partly because it annoyed people, especially stokers, who actually worked for a living, and partly because I always thought that having just highly polished toecaps looked really stupid.
     
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  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    It is an interesting discussion topic. It does make one wonder whether our enemies prefer to be shot by a woman with long hair, facial tattoos and scruffy clothing or a short-haired, no-nonsense, clean shaven, dapper dressed bloke.

    Special Forces personnel often find the best form of camouflage is not a disruptive pattern romper suit, but by dressing and looking like the local indigenous population.

    During WW2, the concept of blending in with the populace was so effective that the Germans decreed that enemy combatants not wearing a distinctive uniform would be shot as spies...as opposed to being shot at for wearing a distinctive uniform.
     
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  8. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Without doubt modern UK society is becoming increasingly weighted towards indulging the whims as well as the rights of the individual.

    Mixed feelings about the topic as I am naturally subversive but recognize that boundaries are often beneficial even if unpopular.
     
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  9. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

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    I get some of the points for the relaxation of rules, but not the SF /Persec argument. Guys in NI stood out because they went around in a group wearing desert boots, jeans, sqn t-shirts, a Regtl tattoo and spoke in a Non-NI accent.
    I can count on one hand the number of personnel in Afghanistan that have a genuine reason to blend in, for most it was used as an excuse by non-SF to be lazy and not shave ‘*text deleted* it looks ally’.
    Society is currently in a race to the bottom when it comes to standards, I do not want to be part of an organisation that wins.

    Lots of comments from us old blokes on this topic. What do you youngsters looking to join think?
     
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  10. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    It is certainly an interesting topic.


    There’s several views. The classic, health and hygiene and everyone is he same during RT. Beards affect seals on the resi.

    But there’s a persec side too which I can see.

    Public parades etc. But I could never get my head round shaving in the field when there was no NBC threat. As you don’t shave in the jungle or Depending on your DS, Norway.

    Maybe have unit level relaxing of the rules regards to hair? There’s a place for it in SF. But not really for green army.

    It is annoying to be smashed constantly for standards and then you see some of the states that are in the Police, Fire and Ambulance.
     
  11. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Possibly, for reasons of battlefield hygiene if injured, it's arguable that females in infantry units should have short hair perhaps but equally, males in non-combatant roles should have the same regulations as females.

    We cannot claim to be a genuine equal opportunities employer if people have different regulations based on gender or religion. Or can we?
     
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  12. Rover

    Rover Moderator

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    images.jpg

    :cool:

    New RMCO at Poole wanted SB on parade in Full Blues.
    Beards, hair over the shoulders one with a full afro.o_O
    RSM trying to keep a straight face!!:)
    Fit for role.;)
     
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  13. arny01

    arny01 Ex Pongo.

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    Absolutely bang on!!
     
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  14. Old Man

    Old Man Ex-Matelot

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    It would appear to be discriminatory. Difficult to objectively justify why males should have shorter hair than females.
     
  15. Cuzza22297

    Cuzza22297 Member

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    Personally, I think all should remain unchanged.

    Obviously I’m not saying everyone with long hair is messy and dirty, but it goes without saying hygiene is more easily maintained when hair is short, face is clean shaven etc... especially in combat situations where showers are not always readily available.

    I remember for sports sessions at school, people were told to remove earrings and tie up long hair as there was a risk of these getting caught and accidents happening. If infantry soldiers are running around with ear piercings and long hair, there is an added risk of an accident happening, putting someone in a position where they might not be able to defend themselves and subsequently getting wounded or killed. Yes, the risk is minuscule but it’s still there when it doesn’t have to be and when lives are on the line, should be considered.

    As for persec and haircuts, the vast majority of males you pass in the street in the age gap you’d associate with those serving sport hair of a length that would be acceptable to current regulations. The nature of where we are likely to be fighting in the near future means that soldiers would be more easily recognised by ethnicity rather than something as simple as a short ‘military style’ haircut, as the case may have been in NI where both sides were predominantly white.
     
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  16. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Yep, this was one justification for longer hair in NI. But not all units mixed or socialised with the natives off duty. My lot certainly didn't in the 1970s. I don't know what the custom was in the Royal Marines. @Caversham might comment.

    But blokes would sometimes have to go out in covert civvy cars for various reasons associated with the job. And sometimes we had a day out playing on the beach. :)
     
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  17. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

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    Ballykinlar was always my favourite.
     
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  18. arny01

    arny01 Ex Pongo.

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    Portrush!! :D:D
     
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  19. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    I like Portrush. Reminded me of North Cornwall. But the beach at BK was our regular venue for such excursions. Enjoyed some fine beach barbeques there. Well, fine if one ignored the total absence of women. Oh, and the blokes in the dunes behind with GPMGs providing top cover. :)
     
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  20. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

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    BK had some great excess married quarters the wives and kids used to use to get away from the Marching Season. Happy Days:):):)
     
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