Feedback request - Cost of extra kit during training

Ninja_Stoker

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Similarly, prior to joining the RN, I was an apprentice toolmaker and had to buy several hundred £'s worth of kit including micrometers, vernier callipers, assorted files, scrapers etc. Ironically, the company (Ford Motor Co) provided the kit you had to buy off them.

My mate was a commercial diesel fitter and spent literally £1000's on toolkits & specialist tools.
 

arny01

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Similarly, prior to joining the RN, I was an apprentice toolmaker and had to buy several hundred £'s worth of kit including micrometers, vernier callipers, assorted files, scrapers etc. Ironically, the company (Ford Motor Co) provided the kit you had to buy off them.

My mate was a commercial diesel fitter and spent literally £1000's on toolkits & specialist tools.
Well well. Your early employer has been mine for the last 17 years! I take it you were in the Halewood plant?

All kit should be provided by the service, and if it’s not fit for purpose, then there should be a system in place to highlight problem kit. Unfortunately that’s the real world!!
 

westy

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When I was a scaffolder I had to buy my own tools, easily about £200!!
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Well well. Your early employer has been mine for the last 17 years! I take it you were in the Halewood plant?
Yip, that's the place - Jaguar now, owned I think by an Indian car manufacturing giant, Tata. 14000 employees back then, less than 6,000 now.
 

Caversham

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A few of us have been on a mission over the requirement to purchase items prior to commencing RT and also there was some confusion over the eligibility for rail warrants during RT.

In order to get some clarification on this issue I wrote to my MP a few months ago, whose constituency also covers CTC, about the requirement to purchase irons and ironing boards, along with buying cleaning materials in order to meet the standards required at CTC.

I received a response today and have copied and pasted his reply from the SoS for Defence. I have put in bold italics where I feel that his response is in total contrast to what you are telling us. According to the MoD, recruits do not have to buy ironing boards prior to joining, even though they are told to do so. I'm happy to ask him if that is so, why they sell them to recruits in the NAAFI! They also state that they are not required to buy cleaning products as these are supplied, along with the hot water!

THE RT HON MARK LANCASTER TD VR MP

MINISTRY OF DEFENCE, FLOOR 5. ZONE B, MAIN BUILDING, WHITEHALL LONDON SW1A2HB

Thank you for your letter of 20 April 2019 on behalf of your constituent Mr Alan XXX of XXXXX, who raised concerns about additional costs incurred by Royal Marine {RM} recruits during their trainIng.

As Mr XXX states in his correspondence, Commando Training Centre Royal Marines adheres to a tri service policy guidance, JSP 752, Chapter 7, Section 1. In line with this policy, when allocating warrants to recruits for leave periods, recruits are given direction and guidance on the most economical way to use their warrants by the Unit Personnel Office staff. The allocation of these warrants relates to the age of the recruits.

a). Recruits under the age of 17 years and 6 months These recruits are entitled to one return journey for each complete three months qualifying service, until their 18th birthday, (irrespective of phase of training). They are entitled to no more than four journeys at the tax payers’ expense in 12 months.

b). Recruits over the age of 17 years and 6 months but under the age of 18. Recruits in this cohort are entitled to two return journeys at tax payers’ expense (which are taken prior to the commencement of their 18th birthday, or commencement of Phase 2 training, whichever Is the latter).

c) Other Recruits In Phase 1 Training (first 15 weeks), All recruits undertaking Phase 1 training, irrespective of age or duration {other than a or b} of their phase of training are entitled to two journeys at tax payers’ expense. These journeys are to be taken prior to the commencement of Phase 2 training,

Turning to Mr XXX comments regarding the purchase of irons and ironing boards by recruits. While not required to purchase these items to start Royal Marines training, recruits are recommended to purchase a good quality iron that will last a career and is worthy of the investment. Basic irons and ironing boards are supplied through the Ministry of Defence logistic chain.

Mr XXX may wish to be aware that cleaning of accommodation is conducted by an approved contractor. Recruits do clean their living spaces as part of daily inspections. However, I would like to re-assure Mr XXX that recruits are not required to purchase cleaning products. - mops, buckets, cloths, cleaning products and hot water are provided.

My officials have recommended that if the families or parents have any concerns regarding any practices occurring, then they have an opportunity to discuss such issues at each Recruit Troop Families Day, held at week five in recruit training, where they will be provided with direct points of contact for training staff.

I hope this response explains the position.



THE RT HON MARK LANCASTER TD VR MP



The Rt Hon Sir Hugo Swire MP

House of Commons

London

SW1A OAA


Alan
 
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Cheezy hammy eggy

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Well well. Your early employer has been mine for the last 17 years! I take it you were in the Halewood plant?

All kit should be provided by the service, and if it’s not fit for purpose, then there should be a system in place to highlight problem kit. Unfortunately that’s the real world!!
New Hutte Rd per
Well well. Your early employer has been mine for the last 17 years! I take it you were in the Halewood plant?

All kit should be provided by the service, and if it’s not fit for purpose, then there should be a system in place to highlight problem kit. Unfortunately that’s the real world!!
New Hutte Road per chance ??
 

GazMMM

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There does need to be separation of "what is nice to have" and "what is essential", purely because those in charge will cloud the issue by saying that it's personal choice as to what recruits have to buy. No it's not!

Ironing boards, irons, cleaning products, are not personal choices; they are essential. A Jet boil cooker is a personal choice, purely because no one wants to be crouched over a hexamine cooker trying to get a hot wet on, when a jet boil will do it much faster.

If TTs are trashing items such as ironing boards and irons they may think twice if it was a Pusser's item. Lost or damaged kit used to be covered by the person responsible by being given a Form S126, which meant that they had to pay for it.

Similarly the cleaning materials for the heads should be supplied and that was never an issue when I was at CTC. It may not have the fragrance of commercial products, but it done the job.

The Head Shed at CTC are burying their heads and ignoring what is going on and, as we are aware, they come on this site and see what is going on, so I sincerely hope that when they read this thread that they are embarrassed and get things changed and standardised for each Troop, because I feel that this issue is not going away anytime soon.

One last thing for any of them reading this......have a look at my signature, because that says it all!

Alan
The hierarchy are great at doing ostrich impressions. Sat in the puzzle palace doing *text deleted* all most of the time. Unless they’re away on they’re third AT jolly that term ! Probably spending the toiletries budget on the piss.

The Corps should supply everything required by the recruit.

Essential kit is non negotiable. I didn’t provide my own ammo on op’s or weapon oil/gauze etc.

The lads above are spot on.

‘Jet boils’ aren't essential. I still have the gas cooker I bought in week 15 after my training team allowed it. It went on every op (8) I did, and it’s still going strong. It’s a luxury though.

Gaz
 

Faugery

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My Nod has spent several hundreds on kit, before they even get paid is taking the *text deleted* - especially those who are under 18. I think it is shameful that those in the military are offering their lives to fight for this country, yet have to buy toilet cleaner and hundreds of other items. I can feel my blood boil now, so will shut up-banghead-:(
 

Cheezy hammy eggy

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Apart from “nutty” my nods only expense was to buy map covers/ bivvy poles, dry sacks and a good hunting knife. He obviously had to buy personal skin creams etc, I don’t recall him having to buy domestic cleaning agents for the grots, If that’s the case with your nod I’d be threaders also, everything seems to be subjective in RT, and it depends on the attitude of the TT.
 

Faugery

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With all the other trades, the tools last out their career or sold on. These Nods cannot take their kit with them as it is used/finished and or breaks. It is a VERY different situation and here I go again..... These lads are on £15K so guess it is for lurve they are doing it...On a serious note I can honestly say I was shocked when my Nod told me about salary/conditions etc. I feel embarrassed that my country demands so much and gives so little to the military. I have worked with kids in care and they had an annual budget which was greater than the cost of living in the ritz hotel....most of those young people didn't give a hoot about anything. How can you justify it, no wonder recruitment is down. Such a shame.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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These lads are on £15K so guess it is for lurve they are doing it...
Yep, I think we can safely assume anyone joining the UK Armed Forces to become wealthy has probably made an error in their expectations. Pay increases to £19k after 26 weeks which isn't bad for a typical16 year old single individual, living with parents and having no financial commitments, but a different story for a typical 32 year old with a family.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the 2019 AFPRB recommended pay report, traditionally awarded from April, was put back to May 2019...and, suprise! It's overdue.

Much the same as the debacle last year where the government rejected it (for the first time in 40-odd years) but gave us a one-off bonus (eventually paid eight months late and still below the recommended payrise) and which effectively reduces any pay rise announced this year by 0.5% below the headline claimed.
 

Caversham

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My Nod has spent several hundreds on kit, before they even get paid is taking the *text deleted* - especially those who are under 18. I think it is shameful that those in the military are offering their lives to fight for this country, yet have to buy toilet cleaner and hundreds of other items. I can feel my blood boil now, so will shut up-banghead-:(
But the official policy is, that they do not have to buy cleaning products. See the reply from the MoD above.

My guess is, and it is only a guess, is that a member of the TT has said that "Brand X will get rid of those marks", so off goes the Nod into Exeter and buys the said Brand X and so it goes on.

Where the reply is totally laughable is the point made about ironing boards. The MoD clearly states that they are available as a stores issue, but the reality is that Nods are told to bring one with them, or buy one when they arrive at CTC and they even sell them in the NAAFI!

My advice if you have concerns? Write to your MP and complain. It will take around 3 months for a reply, but things will not change until CTC get fed up of having to answer Ministerial correspondence, especially on the same subject.

Alan
 

beagle226

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I don't mind buy kit for my nod i just wished they gave a compleat list before training starts.. thats 200 they told him was for kit wasn't spent on any kit just stuff round camp
 
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