Fighting terror with torture ????

Discussion in 'Current & Military Affairs Discussion Forum.' started by Vine, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Vine

    Vine Active Member

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    Just watched a documentary there giving an insight to some of the things used by the CIA on prisoners waterboarding etc during the Iraq war. Anybody else catch it?
     
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Careers Adviser

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    I didn't, but it's a good topic for discussion.

    Is it morally wrong, for example, to torture terrorists such as ISIS (who behead people & post it on YouTube) to save the lives of innocents?

    Flip side? When you invade a country like Iraq under a false pretext, who is the terrorist?
     
  3. JuneBug

    JuneBug Active Member

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    Just sat watching this with the girlfriend and had a struggle trying to remain politically correct! It's an extremely touchy subject!
     
  4. Vine

    Vine Active Member

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    Pretty interesting to watch and as you say a good topic of discussion
    Political correctness is one way of putting it I reckon there will be strong views for and against....
     
  5. Jack98

    Jack98 New Member

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    Extreme and difficult measures sometimes have to be taken if a countries own people are being affected by threats such as ISIS for example, in my opinion. Torture is something that is sometimes abused beyond what it "should" be used for though.
     
  6. ERFC

    ERFC Royal Marines Commando

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    After speaking to an ex navy seal and having him describe what he went through in his 2 week interrogation phase I think he'd say water boarding is far from torture.

    I think if people knew what some Special Forces personnel went through then they'd realise that the CIA weren't as bad as people are perceiving them to be. In my opionion if there is evidence that an individual knows certain Intel which could save lives then there should be a measured amount of physical pressure applied till that information is obtained. Obviously there should be a limit but the agencies shouldn't go under scrutiny of what they are doing is beneficial to international security.
     
  7. Jack98

    Jack98 New Member

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    Someone is still being made to suffer against their will though mate, no matter if they are being deprived of sleep or water boarded etc.
     
  8. Old Man

    Old Man Ex-Matelot

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    Allow authority to torture anybody, under any circumstances, and ultimately, you render yourself liable to torture.

    Justification is easy to find and anybody can become a suspect.
     
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  9. ERFC

    ERFC Royal Marines Commando

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    I see what you're saying buddy but they don't classify SF interrogation phase as torture a surely it would have been stopped and the government would have intervened.... I'm not going to post what my friend went through in his training but it is pretty graphic however he never considered it to be torture even though it was against his will. He says that torture begins when the enemy capture you and if you can get through this training then you have a higher chance of getting out alive in a real scenario.

    From what I've been reading it seems that SF training was worst at times then what the CIA were doing to their captives.

    I say you have to take this topic with a pinch of salt and just hope it's not you sitting in the chair. ;)
     
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  10. LRL

    LRL Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly everyone is human and feels pain, eventually they will break it's a case of when.
    I don't know any people in the SFs or what techniques they learn to aid them when being tortured but i still think even the best will eventually break so it is necessary.
     
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  11. ERFC

    ERFC Royal Marines Commando

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    Your absolutely right, everyone has their own pain threshold as well as a mental breaking point and once you pass that then you won't need to push it.
     
  12. Deja vu

    Deja vu Member

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    He must have had some very amazing training to have a better chance of surviving torture than anyone else.

    You last as long as the captors let you.

    Most of the torture training is evasion, not resistance because in real life you'll resist very little because anything you know wouldn't be worth the sacrifice. Think you've heard a good dit.
     
  13. Jack98

    Jack98 New Member

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    Damn right you never want to be in the position of being tortured, rather the enemy than me or you.
     
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  14. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Terrorists kill, maim and torture innocent people. No one bats an eyelid.

    The West water board a few terrorists and everyone losses their minds,

    the left wing hippie brigade kick off. Where was there sudden outburst of human compassion and need for moral high ground when these people strapped Remote IEDs to kids with Down's syndrome and sent them off to do their dirty work.

    Sometimes, violence is very much the answer. Sometimes people have to get their hands dirty to save innocent lives. You have to fight fire with fire. It's the only thing these people understand.

    You don't just take up the mantle of cutting someone's head off lightly. You have to be a sick, determined and dedicated pyscopath. They aren't going to just roll over from a slapped wrist and a stern talking too.
     
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  15. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

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    Torture has been shown to be pointless. The guys in the second world war picked up on it very early on and they weren't no bleeding heart liberals.

    The prisoners just tell you what you want to hear to get you to stop. You then spend days chasing nonsense intelligence, then repeat cycle.

    The criticism Bush, Blair and Jack Straw etc have come under for being involved in torture over the last 15 shows that it doesn't work. All that pressure and they couldn't come up with one single example of anything it stopped in order to justify their own stupidity.

    The real question is, could that intelligence man power have stopped an actual terrorist attack that did happen if they weren't running around chasing false tails?

    I think a bit of carrot and non violent stick has been shown to get better results.
     
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  16. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

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  17. ERFC

    ERFC Royal Marines Commando

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    British special forces focuses less on the resistance side of things than the Seals. He went through hell and all they wanted to know was what colour he was told to keep a secret.
     
  18. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    But we aren't talking about rational thinking, conventional warfare. We are talking about hardcore, brainwashed, highly motivated and unhinged individuals that believe their own hype.

    Offering to pay little Achmeds water bills over his eternal peace with however many virgins and the prestige of being a martyr won't do much.
     
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  19. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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  20. GreyWing

    GreyWing Nobody

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    Don't worry I don't quote them that often but that was evidence given to a Senate Committee by the people that actually tortured the chap.

    I would say that I don't have much sympathy for khalid sheik Mohammed. He was behind 9/11, I just wish they had called it a "good hiding" instead of claiming to have tried to get info out of him and taking anything he said seriously.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015

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