Sponsored Ad

Dismiss Notice
'Users of this forum are reminded they should not discuss performance of individual attendees at PRMC or in Recruit Training for PERsonal SECurity and in observance of Diversity & Inclusion legislation'.

Future Commando Force - anybody know whats happening?

Discussion in 'General Royal Marines Joining Chit Chat' started by The FNG, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. The FNG

    The FNG New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2019
    Posts:
    2
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    Evening everyone, new member and hopefull recruit here so I'm not sure if this has been discussed to death in some thread i missed, but does anyone know what the RM's future entails? I've seen everything from (eyebrow-raising) articles about them becoming a new SF unit to them being sliced in half and relegated to fleet protection.

    Can anyone offer any insight? I could see it making sense for an elite unit like the Royal Marines being "upgraded" in role to a "Tier 2" unit (pardon the yank terminology) much like US Green Berets or the SEAL Teams outside of DEVGRU, but at the same time that would cost money which the MoD seems ever short of.
    Any ideas, or is any reliable info security sensitive?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    33,903
    Looking back, the Royal Marines have always been involved in Fleet Protection at sea and alongside, albeit under different role names.

    Equally they have always enhanced the potency and combat capability of warships, both afloat and power projection ashore.

    The Commando aspect of the role was indeed declared Special Forces when introduced.

    Looking forward, the Corps forever evolves to keep ahead in combat capability.

    This rather interesting article alludes to something which is already underway with regard the evolutionary process which goes beyond the conventional soldiering role witnessed operationally in Afghanistan, 800 miles inland: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-a...019/may/29/190529-royal-marines-in-the-future

    The Corps, to my mind, has always been regarded as elite. In many countries a force with similar numbers and capabilities would certainly be declared SF, the only reason I can think it currently isn't officially classed as such is because of the financial implications.

    An interesting and thought-provoking conversation topic, but one which I have not heard about through official channels beyond the links above.

    The Puzzle Palace website is a cracking website, heartily endorsed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Gucci Info Gucci Info x 1
  3. PotentialBootneck

    PotentialBootneck New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Posts:
    69
    Off subject....but does anyone know what’s happening on the 24th August? Seen the adverts but heard nothing....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Posts:
    4,299
    I'm going to a bar b q on Exmouth beach! ;)

    Alan
     
    • Hoofin Hoofin x 1
  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    33,903
    Creamfields?
     
  6. ALDL9RM

    ALDL9RM Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Posts:
    53
    App Stage:
    Passed Medical
  7. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Posts:
    44
    New to forum, but a trained rank and thought I'd wade in on this one (before the drip artists start leaking).

    So the FCF Model/concept:
    SF are in clip trying to meet their obligations, CT, COIN, PvP, etc. The corps is in clip for lads feeling a bit like they re undervalued as commandos, the future battle-spaces are evolving rapidly, the army are dealing with the boring low-level stuff (yes deployed, but deployed but on stag, is still just being on stag). To that end, the Corps has been given the green light to evolve into a more agile force, based around small teams (we've trialled the 12 man "ODA" format for example). The quote I've heard a few times is "SF minus, not Infantry plus", i.e. the corps will essentially fulfil that "tier 2" role, leaving the more spicy Tier 1 stuff for poole and hereford. Think the SEAL format, the Corps would be the bulk of the SEAL teams, with SBS being the DEVGRU guys.

    This is starting to come to fruition already, we have elements of the corps getting issued Crrye, gucci helments, C8's etc (above that of the boarding teams), the new Littoral Strike Ships are en route in the next 5-10 years (if you look at the renderings, they are basically the same as the MV Ocean Trader..the SEAL ship), the corps taking on more STTTs (Short Term Training Teams).

    Any questions fire away, that's the best way I can think to describe it at the moment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Illustrious

    Illustrious Royal Marines Commando - Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Posts:
    2,219
    @Jack of no trades how close are you to the policy in regards to FCF, as the recent brief I and about 9 others had from a Colonel involved in FCF couldn't provide anything concrete as to how we are going to implement all these fanciful ideas, which was irritating. It was a shopping list of wants with no credit card from as far as I could tell (although I loved the ideas being put forward)
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  9. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    630
  10. ERFC

    ERFC Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Posts:
    870
    He’s fairly accurate in what he’s saying from the last brief I had from our CO about a month ago. Nothing will be visible for 5/10 years but the plan is in motion. I thought it was all *text deleted* to start with but we are receiving better equipment etc in preparation for it.
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  11. 06061944

    06061944 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
    Posts:
    16
    Just to add, I've got the same briefs and one of the points was taking over certain SF roles to free them up but that is 10 yrs away. Think J Coy in 42 going up a gear.

    However, with regard deployments. Testing out a Gucci radio or drone in Dartmoor or Sennybridge is still just being in the field in Dartmoor or Sennybridge.

    The retention issue is happening now. Lads aren't going to wait around 10 yrs to potentially go on standby for SF tasks that may never happen. Short term training teams are handfuls of marines.

    A trip to Afghanistan / South Sudan / Mali would be huge for morale. The attitude that we're too good for these type of force protection roles has really bitten the Corps badly.

    I agree the Corps is trying to distinguish itself by playing to its strengths but new equipment and a new ORBAT will only go so far for the lads.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  12. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    630
    Agree. I know they are nothing like Herrick and Telic of old but surely we can still get something out of it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Posts:
    44
    Not close per se, but seem to absorbed a boat load of briefs from several high ups recently, some of whom have been in all the FCF planning meetings. I just posted a consolidated summary of what they are trying to get at.
     
  14. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Posts:
    44
    at depends on what you want to see, Many groupings within the Corps are already dabbling in the MarSpoC/FCF concept. Whereas the greater Corps isn't geared towards it yet.
    To be clear, FCF isn't going to be a traditional Brigade anymore, so to see "big changes" at a large level will take time, lads also need to see the bigger picture in general...There is NO warfighting happening, SF are doing less of it, so there's no chance anyone else is getting a spoonful. What i happening now is more defence engagement, relationship building and non-combat roles (but equally important/useful); e.g. J Coy taking down Iranian Oil tankers.

    Afghan, while yeah lads would get a gong...is literally stagging on. Cabrit....is literally stagging on....etc, etc. The STTTs are out there, btu lads don't put in for it, I know many lads who have got them....and ours are infinitely more Gucci than the Pongo ones. Add on to thee factors that we are commandos, while that doesn't seem to mean much to some of the lads in the Corps lately, it's a big deal politically, to send a commando grouping into a country is a massive escalation from some chip-shop pongo regiment. (apologises to the decent pongos on here).

    these things take time to implement, yeah the army have rolled out "SPIG" pretty quickly, but they have also given it big ones about their role (deffo not moving into the ODA/US Green Beret model), baring in mind when they tried to take on the commando role, they all freddied in massive numbers and scrapped the idea. Whereas the Corps has taken a more measured and systematic approach, actually talking to SF and getting them on board has been a massive win.

    Yeah lads will have to wait for the whole thing to be in place, however, the Strike Ships will be in within 5-10 years (1st on in 5 years), the corps can't wait until then to re-role ad get good at the FCF job, therefore changes will be happening in the build up to that, we will also have to be in the right ORBAT and be exercised/utilised within that ORBAT by the time we start using the new ships.

    "Trialling Gucci Radios or drones on dartmoor or sennybridge"...where else do you think this is *text deleted* happen, things need trialling before they are implemented.

    It's also, not standby for SF taskings, it's taking on lower level taskings, there is a difference, they have standard tasks and commitments that would move over to the Corps.
     
    • Seen Seen x 1
  15. 06061944

    06061944 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
    Posts:
    16
    I have no doubt the Corps is aiming to rebrand itself to the wider MOD community for its survival and future utility.

    In 10 yrs time it will be very different to the one now probably being closer to Navy SEALS than ever before. To clarify that standby for SF taskings point, I wasn't saying the Corps would be on standay for an SF tasking. I meant the role the Corps would take over would be, on standby as a contingency response, without giving anything away, one that has been called into action very little in the past 10 years. But still needs to be manned for worse case scenario.

    The FCF, is a fantastic idea and will definitely set us more apart from other units in future deployments.

    I am fully aware kit needs to be trialled but if given a choice between Gucci kit, weapons and uniforms or a live operation to a potentially hostile environment regardless of tasking. Lads would go overseas to tick that box, so to speak, in a heartbeat

    Op Cabrit and Torral might just be stagging on. But the attitude of leave it to the pongos is very frustrating for lads who joined for Afghan / ops and havnt gone. 5 yrs plus worth of marines now at this stage. They aren't Herricks or Telics but lads could get so much with regard soft skills. Like interacting with a foreign culture, working with the locals, relationship building. Even just living in an environment where there is a live potential threat. Than the notional Free Devonian Forces we've all battled.

    The amount of senior marines, I've spoken who find it awkward when asked have they been on ops and have to reply No. Not their fault of course.

    Lads join to prove themselves, travel the world and be warriors. There is a lot of frustration about at the moment with lads.

    When you join the Corps you want to be part of the legacy. We'll never live up to our WW2 forebearers, the Falklands marines the men who went to Afghanistan and Iraq etc... You just want to know you were even a little worthy of being associated with them
     
  16. Illustrious

    Illustrious Royal Marines Commando - Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Posts:
    2,219
    I agree we do need some decent Ops, the type of bloke joining these days seems remarkably different to what was coming through the door even a decade ago.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    630
    In what ways? I don't mean that to sound aggressive ha way just genuinely curious.
     
  18. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    33,903
    I genuinely noticed a difference in the type of person applying to join the Royal Marines over the years.

    I don't mean millennials or stuff like that, I mean the type of person.

    During the Herrick years we saw more applications from people who were seeking adventure (adrenalin junkies and risk-takers, if you will - I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, in any way, just a different psyche).

    Years ago, we used to see more people who saw combat as an occupational hazard, then we saw a shift in applications toward more people who genuinely wanted to experience combat. They were always there, but the truth is, combat ops actually sees an increase in applications from this area.

    After Herrick there was, I believe, a fall-off in applications and I don't think it was a coincidence. The economy took an upturn and the civilian private sector probably was a bigger and more lucrative draw.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Illustrious

    Illustrious Royal Marines Commando - Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Posts:
    2,219
    @03092014 no offence taken bud. It's difficult to put into words but I'll give it a craic. I've personally witnessed and experienced younger lads coming through the Brigade with what I can only describe as a chip on their shoulder, in some cases both shoulders. On top of that, an increase of lads thinking because they've done a Joint Warrior, they're now a 'sweat' and can dish out details off to newer lads. News flash *text deleted*ers, you are newer lads.

    When I joined up, FSG was full of proper sweats, rare to find 1st draft marines there. These days, it's rarer to find the opposite, which is admittedly the Corps fault in cycling lads through into DSS too quickly I believe (happy to be corrected).

    That's not to paint all lads with the same brush, there are still immensely capable marines being produced, but I do question whether they're of the same calibre of bloke as even the Herrick / Telic days, I'm sad to say I'm encountering more lads that I'd be wary around them armed with a cylume, let alone a gpmg.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. boogey96

    boogey96 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Posts:
    80
    App Stage:
    Passed PRMC
    Wouldn’t surprise me at all if the more experienced lads from falklands etc said this about blokes that went on to serve with distinction in Iraq/afghan?

    Although I don’t disagree with you at all and I’m not questioning what you’re saying I just think that it’s likely been said generation to generation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019