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Iran

Discussion in 'RM Operational News' started by RM_Yorkshire, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. RM_Yorkshire

    RM_Yorkshire New Member

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    Thoughts on the rising tensions with Iran & US?

    Noticed that we have just sent a Warship into the Gulf. Reckon this could escalate..?

    War makes money after all right!
     
  2. JWJ

    JWJ Active Member

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    The destroyer HMS Duncan coming into the gulf was already scheduled to take station there, reliving HMS Montrose, which is going to go into maintenance after her time on station there.

    And don’t say it’s just between Iran and the US, after the UK govt ordered RM onto their tanker, it’s now between Iran and us.
     
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  3. RM_Yorkshire

    RM_Yorkshire New Member

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    Wasn’t aware of the former.

    True, saw the RM getting involved. Started solely with US involvement however. We of course will jump into any sort of conflict that the US is involved in, hence our alliances.

    More curious to see if anyone believes that this is in fact going to escalate further or if it is just political showmanship.
     
  4. TheRubberDagger

    TheRubberDagger Royal Marines Commando

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    Nothing new.

    Naval equivalent of ‘RAF chase russian jets out of UK airspace”.

    Happens more than you think- just doesn’t make the news.
     
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  5. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Interestingly the recent boarding of the Iranian tanker was an enforcement of sanctions imposed upon Syria which was the alleged cargo destination rather than on Iran itself. The EU (including the UK) is still pushing back against unilateral elevated US sanctions against Iran.

    Yep, the reality since 1960 being 'RAF chase Russian aircraft which approached and were in close proximity to UK airspace but never actually in it'.
    I guess that it's a less snappy headline and unlikely to grace front page of the Daily Mail. :)
     
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  6. JWJ

    JWJ Active Member

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    I’m just saying, regardless of if it was a EU sanction, UN sanction or a Wetherspoons sanction, British forces were still the ones to enforce it, and it was a Iranian vessel with Iranian oil on board.

    I do still love the Iranians response. “It wasn’t going to Syria.. it was going somewhere else”. Remind anyone of Baghdad Bob?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    We played brinkmanship previously during the Iran/Iraq war in the 1980's, so nothing new in that respect - not that it isn't a dangerous game.

    Outbound fuel tankers were hit, the US Navy took losses through suicide bombers attacking moored ships, (by boat) and tethered sea-mines.

    Inevitably, the US retaliated to devastating effect and Iran stepped back.

    Back then, Iran did not have nuclear strike capability. They are at least within grasp of producing weapons-grade plutonium. Any country that has this potential capacity should be at the negotiating table, ideally.
     
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  8. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    The US policy (although the word implies some sort of coherent strategy) appears to focus on humiliating Iran rather than achieving a more constructive solution. I can't help thinking that this won't end well. :(
     
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  9. RM_Yorkshire

    RM_Yorkshire New Member

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    I can’t see it ever escalating to a Nuclear war though. It really doesn’t serve a purpose or have a benefit to anyone. Conventional wars Make money and a lot of it. So I think that the threat of anything nuclear is exactly that. Just a threat. All it takes is one country to push that button. Game over.
     
  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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  11. Rover

    Rover Moderator

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    What happened when Iraq 'stepped out of line'!

    The only successful missile attack on a US warship was 32 years ago, and it was an Iraqi sucker punch


    Blake Stilwell,

    May 17, 2019, 8:55 AM

    upload_2019-7-13_10-3-37.jpg
    A port-quarter view of the guided-missile frigate USS Stark listing to port after being hit by two Iraqi Exocet missiles in the Persian Gulf, May 17, 1987. US Navy/Wikimedia Commons

    • Thirty-two years ago this week, an Iraqi plane fired two anti-ship missiles at the USS Stark in the Persian Gulf.

    • The Stark's crew had detected the plane, but its systems didn't pick up the missiles, and the attack killed 37 sailors.

      On May 17, 1987, a long-range luxury business jet approached the USS Stark, which was on a routine patrol in the Persian Gulf.

      The Iran-Iraq War was nearing its end, but attacks from both sides were still brutal and frequent. When Stark requested the plane identify itself, it instead fired two Exocet anti-ship missiles, killing 37 sailors and wounding another 21.

      The Stark was well outside the war zone and wasn't expecting to run into any kind of attack, especially from Iraq, which was a de facto ally of the US. The crew of the Stark saw what they believed was an Iraqi Mirage fighter coming their way, and, as such, was no real cause for alarm. But the F-1 Mirage wasn't a fighter at all — it was a classified, modified business-class plane, specially adapted to raid Iranian targets.

      The Americans never saw it coming. -banghead-

      A view of damage sustained by the guided missile frigate USS Stark when it was hit by two Iraqi Exocet missiles while on patrol in the Persian Gulf, May 17, 1987.US Navy/Wikimedia Commons

      The ship's electronic surveillance systems didn't see the missiles and neither did the radar, despite both systems being able to track the business jet.o_O The jet made a few quick turns, coming closer with each turn. When it was 30 miles out, it fired and sped away. The second missile hit Stark 30 seconds after the first. The crew had no time to respond.

      According to the Navy's official investigation of the incident, Stark's crew and officers believed the plane would "benignly pass them by." The Tactical Action Officer took no action, even though he knew the Mirage fighter they believed the plane to be was capable of firing missiles from 38 miles away. The TAO tried to increase the ship's readiness level in the minutes before the first missile hit, but by then it was too late.

      There was plenty of blame to go around. The Weapons Control Officer was not at his station, the Fire Control Technician had already left the operations room on personal business, the automatic detector-tracker was off, the fire control radar was on standby, and the Mk-92 fire control radar was not locked onto the attacker until the missiles were already on their way. -banghead--banghead-

      The first Exocet penetrated the hull but did not explode, hitting right beneath the bridge. Its unspent fuel sparked a huge fire aboard the ship. The second missile hit the same spot, but this one exploded, blowing a 3x4.6-meter hole in the ship's hull. Of the 37 sailors who died, 29 were killed immediately, two were lost at sea, and eight more died of their wounds.

      Strangely enough, it was an Iranian helicopter and a Saudi Arabian ship that assisted the Navy in rescue and salvage operations. o_O

      Stark was still afloat and managed to hobble back to port in nearby Bahrain with the help of destroyers USS Waddell and USS Conyngham, along with the destroyer tender USS Acadia. Captain Glenn Brindel was relieved of command of the Stark, eventually taking non-judicial punishment and retiring early.

      Iraq initially claimed the ship violated the war-zone area, but upon seeing the Navy's evidence to the contrary, relented. They announced they would pursue their own inquiry into the incident and apologized to the United States after President Reagan called an emergency meeting of the National Security Planning Group.

      "If this attack was carried out by Iraqi planes, then it 'would have been the result of confusion by the pilots'," the Iraqi Foreign Minister told the Guardian. It's not known what became of the pilot but the Iraqi investigation found he thought the Stark was an Iranian tanker.

      https://www.businessinsider.com/missile-attack-on-uss-stark-by-iraqi-plane-2018-12?r=US&IR=T
    upload_2019-7-13_10-3-37.jpg

    Nor was this the first time Iraq had attacked a 'friendly' ship!:(
     

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  12. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    Chances of any future nods on here patrolling the streets of Tehran are extremely slim to non existent.
    Let’s face it a conventional war with Iran would dwarf both conflicts the west had in Iraq & Afghanistan in terms of blood, money & political fall out. By a considerable margin. There is also the small question of how Russia & China react. Nobody wants that.

    From a simple military point of view the geography of Iran is tricky to say the least. Main forces could enter via the east via tribal/lawless areas of Afghanistan but that would meanall mountain ranges along some of its borders. Entering from the Afghanistan side in the east would mean traversing two deserts and a mountain range. Trying to get in from the west via Turkey would be tricky too. Let’s not forget the Turks wouldn’t let the US use Turkey to invade Iraq. They could maybe enter via the water bordering the southwest. But apparently it’s incredibly swampy and Iran find it very easy to defend. Even if a main battle group could deploy this way they would run up against the Zagros Mountains and that would be, well messy.

    If an idiot like I can identify these hazards then we can presume that big wigs have too.


    I think we need some perspective at times as well. Despite all the headlines and trumps twitter feed we are living in the most peaceful era in history I suspect. Yes there are still wars in some parts of the world. Namely in sandy places. But the large majority of the the world . I remember reading recently that today, in the world as a whole, less than 1.5% of deaths are caused by human violence. Yet in In ancient societies, something 20% per cent of all deaths were by human violence/war.

    For the first time in history, more people die today from eating too much than from eating too littlef more people top themselves than are killed by soldiers, terrorists and criminals combined.

    I think we are all going to be ok and if not... I’ll be in my bunker.
     
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  13. JWJ

    JWJ Active Member

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    Dangerous thought process there
     
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  14. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    It takes many minds to stop a war but only one to start one.

    Human wisdom is very powerful, but we should never underestimate human stupidity!
     
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  15. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    We—as in we in the West—have never understood the Middle East and seldom respected its cultural difference.

    Shortly after the Iraq invasion of Kuwait (Gulf War 1) I visited a retired Army brigadier who lived in a remote house down river of Dittisham on the River Dart. I was there to quote for the installation of a shoreside pontoon and moorings for his yacht. During our meeting the impeccably polite old boy was frequently interrupted by his wife to answer telephone calls from London.

    He apologised and explained that for much of his Army career from a very young age he had held posts in Middle Eastern countries. The telephone calls were from the MoD and the Foreign & Commonwealth Office because he had an intimate knowledge of the key personalities and the complex tribal allegiances of the region.

    His summary? "I'm not flattered by the attention, you know. They don't actually want my advice; they've already made their decisions. They're merely ticking the 'due diligence' boxes."
     
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  16. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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  17. RM_Yorkshire

    RM_Yorkshire New Member

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    The last two paragraphs are interesting. US has sent thousands of additional troops to the MidEast and Nhclear capable B-52’s. Interesting progression.
     
  18. rkec

    rkec Member

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    Looks like a British Tanker has been seized by Iran according to reports. Not sure if it was that one from last week or a new one.

    Ship being reported as seized is the Stena Impero
     
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  19. TangoWhisky

    TangoWhisky Member

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    It's interesting that news agencies are reporting that the ship veered out of the sea lanes and was then seized. I wonder what would have caused her to alter her course so substantially. Screenshot_20190719-193541.png
     
  20. Boplicity

    Boplicity New Member

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    Stay off reddit tonight lads unless you want to loose faith in humanity with some of the trash people are coming out with over this.
     
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