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Joining Royal Marines Commando after med discharge

Discussion in 'Introductions & Welcome to the Royal Marines Site' started by Lunty2940, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. Lunty2940

    Lunty2940 New Member

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    Hi All,

    I am new to this site and just wqnt to ask a question as I know this is the place were I will get told straight.

    I was med discharged from the Army in November 2013 as I was diagnosed with PTSD. I have done the correct treatment and now want to rejoin the forces but hopefully as a RMC.

    Is there an option for me and has anyone heard of anyone being accepted to rejoin?

    Thanks for any advice and help you guys could give I appreciate it
     
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  2. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    Very little chance of re-joining especially the RM , it the same rules (JSP950) that are used for each service so if not fit for one, you are not fit for the other (in theory) even more so as you are looking to join a front line fighting unit.

    The issue is even if now all treated you are considered to be pre-disposed to MH / PTSD problems.
     
  3. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Mate, I don’t have any decent gen to offer but I will be watching thread as interest. And hopefully you get a good outcome.

    Glad to hear your sorted though.
     
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Welcome to the site & best of luck, whatever the outcome. Really good to hear you believe to have recovered from the condition & that in itself is brilliant to hear as your own health and wellbeing is paramount, above anything else.

    As stated above, re-entry following diagnosis and medical discharge for PTSD is unfortunately a non-starter according to JSP950. I've not heard of anyone succeeding to get that overturned, so would be very cautious of anecdotal stories to the contrary.

    The only way I can think of to become eligible is to gain qualified evidence of misdiagnosis of the condition and hope a different diagnosis is, in itself, not also a bar to re-entry.

    The main thing you need to be careful of is if you are in receipt of a medical pension or lump-sum awarded from the AFCS, then claiming to be fully recovered or misdiagnosed could potentially affect eligibility for future payments. Worse case scenario? The original diagnosis bars entry but the claim of misdiagnosis could affect your current status, a real-life Catch 22.
     
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  5. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Not to de-rail the thread. But an interesting argument/thought:

    With transgender people 4 times more likely to suffer from mental illness, and with an exceptionally high suicide rate, before and after transitioning. With a higher chance of schizophrenia and other serious mental illness. Yet they are still allowed to serve...

    Could our views of aspects of mental health like PTSD, be reviewed? Surely it would depend on your own reaction and “level” of PTSD?
     
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  6. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    It is an interesting topic, as you can only claim sexual discrimination under employment law by referencing a person of the opposite biological gender.

    Transgender, by it's very name, suggests the individual is neither one gender or the other, or multiples thereof.

    Given the medical standards for entry with regard mental health issues are directly attributed to the probability of recurrence, it could well be the case an appeal on the grounds of sexual discrimination between a person diagnosed with PTSD and a transgender person with a history of recurrent mental health issues could be an area in which the house of cards collapses.
     
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  7. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    I don't know the statistical probability of mental illness for transgender people but probability is very different from a diagnosed condition.

    A transgender person with diagnosed mental health issues which are a bar to entry should be treated no differently to a non-transgender person with similar MH issues.

    I am rather hoping that this is how the system currently works @Ninja_Stoker ?
     
  8. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    It’s a rabbit hole. As transgenderism goes hand in hand with other mental illnesses. And there are still studies being done that actually say transgenderism is still a mental health issue.

    “The Dutch study results state In 270 (75%) of these 359 patients, cross-gender identification was interpreted as an epiphenomenon of other psychiatric illnesses, notably personality, mood, dissociative, and psychotic disorders. Major mood disorders, dissociative disorders and psychotic disorders reported in 79% of transgenders. This should be alarming.

    The 2013 study results suggest there is a need for practitioners to focus on interventions in helping transgenders with coping skills (adaption in the world) in order to improve mental health for transgender individuals.”

    There’s various different studies and articles done on it. Including many transgender who have transitioned back to their original gender. The John Hopkins university even going so far to refuse physical surgery to treat those with gender dysphoria, stating it was a psychological problem and as such should be treated that way.

    So if transgender people are allowed, despite the high Association with mental health issues and indeed it being contested as a mental health issue, then why can’t PTSD or former service personal who we discharged due to an outdated or old system be re-evaluated?
     
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  9. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Also a can of worms. Don't get me started on epiphenomena. :)

    Transgender people are a diverse bunch (no pun intended). Arguably it's a spectrum disorder. Functionality and vulnerability to mental health issues dependent on an individual's place within that spectrum. Just about every aspect associated with transgender issues is contested.

    PTSD might also be described as a spectrum disorder. Symptoms differ widely and individuals should perhaps be assessed on that basis rather than a broad brush rejection based only on medical coding.

    Transgender people who do have diagnosed MH issues should not have those issues demoted merely to appease an equality agenda. Just my personal opinion.
     
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  10. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    So to delve a little deeper, foxy admits he was discharged after he took himself to sickbay to explore the options. He found that didn’t help, and the military just got rid of a “problem”.

    Foxy admits that now, the toolbox has changed and they have a much better way of dealing with and coping and processes in place.

    If he was to take himself to the sickbay now, how would they treat him differently and would he have been discharged? If the toolbox has changed, then surely the previous diagnosis can be reviewed or taken on board?

    This is entirely different to a fresh faced young lad with mental health issues, it’s a former soldier, trained, been deployed and has a whole world of life experience from then, and will no doubtedly be a changed person and have grown.

    Surely it’s not different to emergency service staff who are removed from frontline but then return after treatment/help?
     
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  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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  12. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    TPA I would not take everything literally your version oof how Foxy went out is very simplified to say the least..and i served with both the guys in his "gang" in the same sqn over several years also , as I was at the said unit for quite a few years (10 years) also it is one of the few with a dedicated MH nurses (who deployed out to the relevant camp to see the guys mid-tour , all were offered pre-tour consultation and post tour ..so to say the military just "got rid" is far from reality and quite frankly an insult to many Dr,s & Nurses & Medics who invest a lot of themselves in these cases , the simple fact is we do not have enough practitioners for MH, but still more the civvy street, hence the ability to access MH up to 6 months post-discharge so at least 18 months of care (with boarding time) / MH treatment if not far, far longer in most cases. Med boards do not get rid willy nilly , and battle with manning quite often to keep guys who are simply recovering and nothing else , but the military has to have a framework to work within or it would result in a free for all, and the military getting sued left right and center, it can not be done on an individual basis, although the Drs concerned would like to , I have sat on the board more than enough to know what a hard job it is , and each decision is taken in conjunction by at least 4 Dr,s, and the pt gets their say as does their boss and what they say is taken into consideration every time. I would add mandated periods of time or criteria that have to be met, or it does not even get to board, once again not waffle as I did the job.!.

    As for the document Chelonian has pulled this demonstrates what can be described as - Dislocation of expectation - the RM fair well as they guys expect to be in harms way..those that don,t quite often suffer adverse effects when they are put in it however moderately .
     
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  13. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    One problem with t'internet is that these documents are placed in the public domain and are open to misinterpretation particularly if incomplete snippets are cited out of context. Unsure why the clip (taken from my link in Post #11) contains bold type. :confused: It's as if the document authors were intent on writing a Daily Mail headline.

    Screenshot 2019-12-08 at 18.01.53.png
     
  14. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    You are the perfect bloke for this thread!


    You picked me up wrong. I wasn’t using it as a literal case. It was more of a simpler way to explain what I was trying to say, maybe a bit more crass than I meant.

    Obviously the treatment of PTSD is constantly changing as more is understood. It was mainly if lads are being kept in for stuff that would previously be binned for, with better procedures and reduction of Ops etc then is there or could there be any scope for review?


    Did you see any difference when you started that role and when you finished it?

    Has there been any significant changes in the way the military deals with and treats PTSD?

    Is there more option for SF to be upgraded and downgraded with regards to Ops in treatment of PTSD or combat fatigue?
     
  15. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    The was some slight changes, and that was due to the lead MO at Haslar Company, who also happened to be the SMO at the unit discussed, so he was aware of a large array of cases, the care and timeline that now goes on is much broader and they actively tried to keep guys longer ( to the limits allowed), but there has to be is a finite endpoint that a rank who is not working can be "employed", some of the guys and girls boarded had been going on for years.!.

    The same applies to those with a terminal illness, where does the line go.!!..and I sure you will be pleased to know , that everybody tries to get every last day out of the service for these unfortunate people and play the rules, they are really hard boards to do

    As for SF having a wider remit, yes they can do in terms of being kept in but in terms of med cat - no they don't - this decision is taken very much by the Dr,s to prevent long term issues for the patient which many guys argue against when in the board , as long as they can be employed in a non-deployable (training / equipment and so on) but few and far between to be honest.

    As for the boarding process itself, the aim of the medical board is simple and singular:

    To place the rank into the highest possible medical category that the medical condition allows.

    Not to discharge people...,

    Could the framework for medical categories be tweaked ??? - yes ...to what end I,m not sure as mentioned in the above post the decision is taken by 4 Dr,s , who get an individuals pack independently from each other and the first time they discuss their findings is about 1 minute before the guy walks in the room..that why it is a med board and not a single Dr making the decision.

    Keeping individuals with a raft of medical restrictions may seem on first instinct the right thing to do, but it would create havoc with manning, basically putting blocks in the manning chain , and increasing deployment for those that are fit, each branch has a percentage it can absorb in place , so this does not mean you out if unfit.

    As an example one branch had 7 WO,s out of those only 2 could go to sea in any capacity - a problem.!

    Engineers can literally have a leg hanging off and they could stay in, The main lever is manning and not medical and any med board recommendation (and that's what it is) goes to manning, but they would be very unwise to overturn a discharge recommendation. The med board gives a rank medical limitations that protect them and manning decide if they can offer a role within those limitations.

    As for treatment, CBT & EMDR courses remain thin on the ground, but once again more available in the military than civvy street, The extra 6 months allowed to access treatment was set up and pushed through because of this by a sitting MP and RN reservist Dr who does medical boards - Andy Murrison.

    Could more be done, without doubt, the issue trained Psych Doctors, they take years to pull through the system - or the Government coughs up and directly funds treatment for guys on a priority basis in civvy street
     
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