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Made Medically Unfit

Discussion in 'Common Training Injuries' started by Decapitari_G, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Dear all,

    I have just received a terrible letter saying I have been made medically unfit. This was done without me despite the doctor saying that she would pass me fit.
    I have been told that I am able to appeal this decision, however, I need to make a very compelling case against this. They said I had a chronic back issue for 12 weeks when I was in Recruit Training. This is not true. I had back pain but it went away and the PTI's in Hunter Coy were trying to get me into a troop. I was not medically discharged as I handed in my chit. It was a terrible decision and severely regret it.
    I was wondering if anyone knows what evidence I need to make a compelling argument against this decision? Or if anyone knows what I can do?

    Any help would be welcomed!

    Thanks
     
  2. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    TMU or PMU? See below:

    https://www.royalmarines.uk/threads/tmu-or-pmu-what-does-it-mean.107555/

    Others better qualified than I will be able to give you advice on how best to craft an appeal. It needs to be done in a structured manner with gathered evidence.

    In the meantime, if you enter 'medical appeal' into the forum search box you'll be able to harvest a fair amount of information on the topic based upon the experience of others, some of whom were also rejoin candidates. Best of luck.
     
  3. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Hi Chelonian,

    thanks for this. I have been PMU'd. I will do some more research on this. Thank you.
     
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  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Does the letter state you are PMU and can never join or that you need to be clear of the condition before a set period, symptom-free has elapsed?

    Chronic means long term or recurrent, so my guess is 12 weeks out of recruit training indicates a condition is chronic, assuming there has been no prior record of back pain.

    My advice to anyone injured in training is NEVER submit notice to quit if the injury is attributed directly to the rigours of training, even if someone tells you otherwise. Reason? The service is beholden to the individual to pay your wage whilst you recover in Hunter Company - if you quit whilst medically downgraded, the injury is unresolved and on your records as such. The medical standards to continue serving have far wider parameters than the medical standards to enter, so whilst you could have continued to serve, you may not meet the standards require to (re)join as an untrained rank.

    If the service declares the condition will not be resolved in the short term and the choice is quit or be medically discharged...ALWAYS go down the medical discharge route because it recognises the injury, records the cause, attributability, extent of limitations and future employability prospects. If the injury prevents you going for a civilian job following medical discharge, the Armed Forces Covenant may well help you due to your former service and the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (AFCS) may well make a tax-free pensionable contribution to your financial circumstances.

    If anyone ever says quitting is better than being medically discharged I'd argue they are giving you deliberately misleading advice.
     
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  5. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    @Ninja_Stoker it says that I do not meet the medical standards and therefore medically unfit as per JSP950. I do not know what was said in my prior service notes but the letter says I had chronic back pain for 12 weeks. I asked a physio the other day and they said that this isn’t chronic but acute and according to the JSP acute means that I am to be passed fit. When I was in hunter the ptis said I was fine and were getting me to do the tests, and I didn’t pass because I wasn’t fit enough not due to pain. Don’t know if that helps?
     
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  6. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Additionally they said that I can provide evidence from a physio, GP or hospital specialist for the appeal?
     
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  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Best bet is to write back to the sender of the rejection letter firstly requesting under what criteria you can in future meet the medical standards for entry and secondly asking for clarification on their assertion that the condition was declared chronic.

    If you do not have a copy of your service medical records for your appeal, download a subject access request form complete it and ask for a complete copy of your service medical records to enable you to appeal against a medical decision.
     
  8. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Hi @Ninja_Stoker for acute back pain there are conditions that can be met for me to pass. For chronic back pain there isn’t. Chronic back pain means back pain for at least 12 weeks. This is according to JSP medical documents.
    I have emailed capita asking for my medical documents to see what it has been said. It said that if I was to appeal I would need medical info from a physio, gp and or hospital specialist. I have made appointments to see the first two next week.
    I hope that perhaps they will show that I am fit and able and what I had wasn’t chronic but acute back pain.. not too sure if I should write this in my cover letter or not?
    Sorry for the essay but I am quite restless due to this decision.
    Thank you for your help.
     
  9. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    An observation from me, if I may:
    I'd wager that you'll maximise your chance of success if you park the restlessness and aim instead to carefully and diligently satisfy the criteria required for an appeal. It's possible that only one appeal will be permitted. Otherwise people would be endlessly appealing appeals. Ensure that your appeal is clinically credible and backed up with appropriate evidence. Put simply: don't rush it.

    If you are required to submit evidence about the apparently disputed medical condition, keep all your medical professionals 'in the loop' about your desired outcome so that their evidence is tightly focused on the required criteria.
     
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  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Spot on.

    Don't argue the case yourself, a brief polite covering letter announcing you wish to appeal and enclose the supporting qualified medical evidence for review by the experts.
     
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  11. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Ok thank you for your help. I will keep you all updated.
     
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  12. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Hi @Ninja_Stoker , I have called Capita and asked how they came about the decision and they couldn’t tell me. When I asked for my medical records they said only my AFCO can access them.
    I am guessing that I need those prior service medical records don’t I?
    Or would it be sufficient to have healthcare professionals write letters? I am not too sure what evidence I need to submit an appeal? As @Chelonian said that I may have one chance at this.
     
  13. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    Your AFCO do not and cannot access your previous service medical records , they are requested from the Institute Of Naval Medicine (Alverstoke) and sent down to SEMC (service entry medical cell) , they would have just passed through the AFCO. It goes back to the letter , was that from the Navy or Capita ? If it is the Navy (SEMC) your appeal goes to the very same people the if you lodge one but may well to a differing clinician to look a. As above gather what relevant info you feel appropriate and submit with a formal letter (address blocks / dates / signed ) to your own AFCO and they will forward to SEMC for further review. While obviously not privy to your medical records a history of back pain is the common pre determination of further back pain so suffice to say, even with evidence that your back is stable in normal "life" to re-enter RM training you are up against it to be upfront about it, but if you feel you have a case place it forward.
     
  14. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    @The guide the letter was from Capita and they said it was for 12 weeks which I believe isn't the case as I had the PTIs from Parker Hall getting me to do the fitness tests to get me back into mainstream training. I have submitted a subject access request to see what was actually said, however, I am conscious of timing as I am 30 now. So if the AFCO cannot get my medical docs then I guess I need to ask Capita again right?
     
  15. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    Hello, just an update @The guide @Ninja_Stoker.
    I had a chat with Capita today (the PMU letter came from them) and got some useful information. They couldn't give me my medical documents however, they told me what the Capita doctor said to determine that I had "chronic" back pain. Firstly, they said that I had a pre-existing back pain history (not true and I don't know where they got this from?). Secondly, they said that I started in December 2015 and I was discharged on April 2016 and had back pain all the way through and noted as on-going when I left. So, most of this is incorrect. I joined back in November 2015 and it is impossible that I was injured December 2015 because I did quick cover and then we had Christmas break until January and then was put into hunter because of a BCG jab which got infected.
     
  16. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Just for clarity, Recruit Training must be started before the day of your thirty-third birthday.

    I'm not qualified to comment on clinical matters but you've begun gathering evidence which is a good start. I can't over-emphasise that collating and then presenting the evidence clearly is important even if it is time consuming.
     
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  17. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    As stated above, the best way to obtain a copy of your former service medical records is to submit a Subject Access Request.
     
  18. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    I have submitted this Subject Access Request on Monday, however, I suspect this may take a few months to arrive.
     
  19. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Not necessarily. More information here:

    https://ico.org.uk
     
  20. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G New Member

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    @Chelonian thanks for this. I still haven't had any receipt or confirmation that they have received it, unfortunately. Will call later on today. Thanks again.