Medical carry over on dual application?

Zandvoort10

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Hello all,

Just wondering if I am dual applying for both RM Officer and Army Officer whether I have to complete 2 medicals and 2 eye tests?

Thanks,

Z
 
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dodgyknees

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Hello all,

Just wondering if I am dual applying for both RM Officer and Army Officer whether I have to complete 2 medicals and 2 eye tests?

Thanks,

Z

Yes you do (certainly the medical) Pain in the backside that it is and despite both of them being processed by Capita-banghead--banghead-
 

Zandvoort10

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Yes you do (certainly the medical) Pain in the backside that it is and despite both of them being processed by Capita-banghead--banghead-

Cheers mate.

You going through the same process? I’ve just booked my Marines Medical and have spoke to my AFCO about applying for Army n’all. I don’t really fancy training as hard as I am, passing AIB and then finishing slightly outside the top 30 or so that they recruit so I thought I’d spread my risk a bit.

If the Marines won’t have me I’ll hopefully end up at Sandhurst looking for a commission with the Paras. I’m going to speak with my AFCO about it soon....still unsure as to whether the Paras have a POC type pre selection. I know the soldiers do PRAC but I can’t find sod all about officers anywhere online.
 
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dodgyknees

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My son did. Applied for both and got on the batch. The paras do have a pre-sandhurst course but it is not as physical as POC. I would equate it to a look at life course. You can not go on the course until after you have passed AOSB main board. My advice is apply for both and see what happens. Doing extra PT can only help both applications and you never know, you may make the batch. Don’t die wandering.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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The only reason I can think that the Army medical and RN medical are not equally valid is possibly because the RN operates a single service policy in certain aspects of the medical.

The main differences are visual acuity standards (the Army accept wider parameters) and in the area of lower limb injuries - The RN is particularly more risk averse to things like ACL reconstruction, dislocations and suchlike.

The only other areas the RN seems be more stringent is with regard the application of the mental health standards, the history of recreational drug use, minimum weight/height parameters and food allergies. Conversely the Army seem to be picking-up heart murmours much more than they are at RN medicals.

One thing I've noticed is the Army usually want a copy of the RN medical examination paperwork, but not the reverse, for some reason...unless the individual has former Army service.
 

westy

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The only reason I can think that the Army medical and RN medical are not equally valid is possibly because the RN operates a single service policy in certain aspects of the medical.

The main differences are visual acuity standards (the Army accept wider parameters) and in the area of lower limb injuries - The RN is particularly more risk averse to things like ACL reconstruction, dislocations and suchlike.

The only other areas the RN seems be more stringent is with regard the application of the mental health standards, the history of recreational drug use, minimum weight/height parameters and food allergies. Conversely the Army seem to be picking-up heart murmours much more than they are at RN medicals.

One thing I've noticed is the Army usually want a copy of the RN medical examination paperwork, but not the reverse, for some reason...unless the individual has former Army service.

I’d say they seem to be coming in line with the mental health aspect as I was also rejected even though I was accepted originally and all I done was change my application from reserve to regular!!

With regards to the heart murmurs, the army diagnosed me with one then the Navy Dr Said I don’t have a murmur or extra beats so I’m well confused with that one
 

Chelonian

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With regards to the heart murmurs, the army diagnosed me with one then the Navy Dr Said I don’t have a murmur or extra beats so I’m well confused with that one

A purely anecdotal comment from me because I am not a medical professional, but heart 'murmurs' and other similar issues are often notoriously difficult to identify as they can be irregular in occurence. One might wear a cardiac recording device for a week and it might reveal nothing. But a one-off examination might identify an anomaly.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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The Army "heart murmour" aspect is widely known about and I think it may well stem from the fact one of their medical examiners is a cardiologist, so consequently pretty good at picking-up potential heart defects. It may sound overly picky, but to my mind, anyone detecting a heart defect is doing a bloody good job.

Similarly one branch of Specsavers detected a potential brain tumour during a routine eyetest. The guy himself was threaders until we pointed out they had probably saved his life.
 

westy

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A purely anecdotal comment from me because I am not a medical professional, but heart 'murmurs' and other similar issues are often notoriously difficult to identify as they can be irregular in occurence. One might wear a cardiac recording device for a week and it might reveal nothing. But a one-off examination might identify an anomaly.

Yeah this is true, the army scanned my heart whilst at Pirbright and done ecgs etc and that’s how they found it was extra beats and nothing horrendous. I also went to my own GP and had a 24hr heart rate monitor on which also confirmed it was extra beats
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Hello all,

Just wondering if I am dual applying for both RM Officer and Army Officer whether I have to complete 2 medicals and 2 eye tests?

Thanks,

Z

Yes. And it’s a bit of a cheek to run 2 applications. Either won’t appreciate the wasted time and money spent on an application that won’t run.

What are your reasons for having 2 applications?
 
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dodgyknees

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Yes. And it’s a bit of a cheek to run 2 applications. Either won’t appreciate the wasted time and money spent on an application that won’t run.

What are your reasons for having 2 applications?

Got to disagree with you here. Both applications take so long to process that if you do them sequentially rather than simultaneously you risk sitting around for 18 months waiting for something to happen. Only having one batch per year and with FSB not until late July are you suggesting he waits to see if he gets into the RM before even starting his Army application?

I do not know his personal circumstances but reckon he is doing exactly the right thing. If, for example he is a graduate leaving in Summer this year and failed to get on to the RM Offr batch, it is unlikely he would get into Sandhurst until May 19. By doing the applications simultaneously, that date comes forward to Sep 18.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Must admit, we experience more dual applications from potential RM Officers because of the manner in which they are selected.

The Corps would probably prefer those Officer candidates not selected, to join as Other Ranks but I do see the logic from the candidate's perspective in keeping all options open.

I still believe we should set the bar at an adequate level to ensure those passing POC and AIB are offered a place immediately on a first past the post basis.

My (personal) logic is we lose those who have the capacity to plan ahead. Although we think we are selecting the best, based on AIB scores, we are potentially selecting last-minute merchants who are less fit but score highly at AIB.

Leadership can be taught but I prefer my leaders to have to foresight to contingency plan rather than perpetually cuff it.

Granted there's only one service the person can join but the selection method does lead to wasted money.
 

Chelonian

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If the Marines won’t have me I’ll hopefully end up at Sandhurst looking for a commission with the Paras.

Consider developing a relationship with the Army regiment of your choice sooner rather than later. It costs almost nothing to do and is not a formal commitment but assuming that two equally competent Cadets are competing for one slot in a regiment evidence of long term interest in that regiment may offer an edge.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Aye, your right, I was looking at it from an OR perspective. Could make a bit more
Sense for YOs.

Just don’t think of it as a backup plan or an excuse to wrap in YO training.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Just don’t think of it as a backup plan or an excuse to wrap in YO training.
To be honest, the Corps just want the best, so I doubt my slant counts for a great deal but having come across some of the RN products sifted at AIB, I'm not convinced that a high AIB score always points to the most proficient of leaders. It does deliver in the main, but if it was perfect, Officer selection wouldn't need tweaking as much as it already is and the people constantly altering it, would leave it long enough to stabilise and deliver measurable and quantifiable data.
 
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dodgyknees

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Consider developing a relationship with the Army regiment of your choice sooner rather than later. It costs almost nothing to do and is not a formal commitment but assuming that two equally competent Cadets are competing for one slot in a regiment evidence of long term interest in that regiment may offer an edge.[/QUOTE

Chelonian is correct get amongst the Regts early. Do not assume the Paras are the best fit for you. Each Regt has a different ethos and that of the Paras is very different to the RM.
 
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dodgyknees

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Sorry finger trouble:

Chelonian is correct get amongst the Regts early. Do not assume the Paras are the best fit for you. Each Regt has a different ethos and that of the Paras is very different to the RM.
 
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dodgyknees

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To be honest, the Corps just want the best, so I doubt my slant counts for a great deal but having come across some of the RN products sifted at AIB, I'm not convinced that a high AIB score always points to the most proficient of leaders. It does deliver in the main, but if it was perfect, Officer selection wouldn't need tweaking as much as it already is and the people constantly altering it, would leave it long enough to stabilise and deliver measurable and quantifiable data.

I was amazed by how short AIB was and how little emphasis is placed on leadership. As a Pongo I may be biased but AOSB seems a much more holistic process. I think POC should figure much higher on who gets onto the batch rather than an academically weighted AIB.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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I was amazed by how short AIB was and how little emphasis is placed on leadership. As a Pongo I may be biased but AOSB seems a much more holistic process. I think POC should figure much higher on who gets onto the batch rather than an academically weighted AIB.
I suspect there are many at CTC who would probably agree the POC score should be added, weighted or have influence on the AIB score, but I'm fairly certain it isn't.

One of the consequences of the current system of selection is repeated every year when people start flapping that "not enough" people have passed POC & AIB.

By this, they mean they want more people passing both than are actually required.

My argument is that if you want, say 52 YO's, then you stop processing after the first 52 people pass both at an adequate pre-determined level and accept the immediate job offer, thus managing realistic aspirations from the outset.

There's nothing more irksome than an applicant who applies at the last possible juncture, or usually later, then expects everyone to lift heaven and earth to compensate for their lack of foresight and who will blame everyone but themselves for not making the cut in time.
 

Chelonian

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One of the consequences of the current system of selection is repeated every year when people start flapping that "not enough" people have passed POC & AIB.

Presumably a 'buffer' of candidates who have passed both POC and AIB is desirable to cope with any shortfall created by injury, change of circumstances, etc. which might lead to an offer of a place on a Batch being declined or the offer withdrawn?

If that 'buffer' is perhaps ten per cent above a year's projected Batch total it seems a prudent and reasonable policy. But I suspect that more than, say, 58 candidates await the 'final cut' each July for a Batch of 52. Can you give an indication of how many candidates are overbooked—which is what I'd call it—annually Ninja?
 
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