medical questions.

laughinqlad19

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well lads
i just have a few questions about my medical appeal. in another thread i discussed my medical pmu due to fainting.

today i received a separate letter from my afco separate to the one capita sent me. im just wondering is this normal. probably just worrying over nothing but when they say words like you have no automatic right to appeal im wondering is that just standard or is it with refrence to me.

also when i phoned my afco the man said that i had to get supportive evidence. i am going to include a letter from my consultant who was over me when i was 14 saying that it wont happen in the future and it was just linked to being a teenager. also i was thinking of a training log to show the intensity of my training and show my bodies holding up fine. does anyone know anything else i can include.

lastly just want to know if anyone else here has struggled with teenage fainting and how the got on with their medicals

sorry for all the qeustions lads and thanks in advance
 

Mattys

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well lads
i just have a few questions about my medical appeal. in another thread i discussed my medical pmu due to fainting.

today i received a separate letter from my afco separate to the one capita sent me. I'm just wondering is this normal. probably just worrying over nothing but when they say words like you have no automatic right to appeal I'm wondering is that just standard or is it with refrence to me.

also when i phoned my afco the man said that i had to get supportive evidence. i am going to include a letter from my consultant who was over me when i was 14 saying that it wont happen in the future and it was just linked to being a teenager. also i was thinking of a training log to show the intensity of my training and show my bodies holding up fine. does anyone know anything else i can include.

lastly just want to know if anyone else here has struggled with teenage fainting and how the got on with their medicals

sorry for all the qeustions lads and thanks in advance


The best thing you can do is try and get up to date evidence showing these fainting issues were nothing more than temporary I'm not sure who would deal with this as I'm sure just words from a doctor won't be enough in this scenario from something they stated when you was 14 as thst issue could still happen now thsts the problem.
There must be some consultant you can see to have new tests done for this situation to show there would be no further issues regarding this.

If I was in your position I would book an appointment with your gp have a talk with him about the situation and try and get booked in with someone who deals with this sort of thing so you can be tested and then have up to date evidence to back your claim then!

Good luck
 

laughinqlad19

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thanks. yes i will be going in to my consultant and will try to go and get tests to show that i have an absolutely clean bill of health. these issues happened when i was quite young and ive complely grown out of them. i dont even want to think about this but if worst comes to worst and my appeal fails is there any other parts of the military that might have less strict standards medical wise. its a long shot but i have heard the army can be less strict. might be pure shite but its worth a shot. it will be an absolute kick in the guts because i just know there is absolutly no chance of me fainting in the future
 

Mattys

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thanks. yes i will be going in to my consultant and will try to go and get tests to show that i have an absolutely clean bill of health. these issues happened when i was quite young and ive complely grown out of them. i dont even want to think about this but if worst comes to worst and my appeal fails is there any other parts of the military that might have less strict standards medical wise. its a long shot but i have heard the army can be less strict. might be pure shite but its worth a shot. it will be an absolute kick in the guts because i just know there is absolutly no chance of me fainting in the future

That's best way for it I know it's fairly annoying situation and time demanding but imagine they pass you and you faint in a dangerous situation you become a liability and out fellow soldiers st risk then thsts the reason behind it all.
All medical standards would be exactly the same you *text deleted* think your applying to become a solider to kill people so can't have any underlining issues especially ones which may cause harm to others.

All medical procedures I expect will have the same result imagine you was on sentry duty in the middle of a war zone while everyone else is sleeping and you faint it's not only you that would be the end of but everyone else! I know I've gone a bit in depth with this but it's the way it's *text deleted* be really or others could argue that there situation deserves a chance to *text deleted*.

Just try and get tests done to show there's no issue I know it will take time but atleast your giving a half a chance to go ahead with your application there's others who would love to try and go forward and gr that green beret but medical conditions which are total bars don't allow this.

How old are you?
 

laughinqlad19

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That's best way for it I know it's fairly annoying situation and time demanding but imagine they pass you and you faint in a dangerous situation you become a liability and out fellow soldiers st risk then thsts the reason behind it all.
All medical standards would be exactly the same you *text deleted* think your applying to become a solider to kill people so can't have any underlining issues especially ones which may cause harm to others.

All medical procedures I expect will have the same result imagine you was on sentry duty in the middle of a war zone while everyone else is sleeping and you faint it's not only you that would be the end of but everyone else! I know I've gone a bit in depth with this but it's the way it's *text deleted* be really or others could argue that there situation deserves a chance to *text deleted*.

Just try and get tests done to show there's no issue I know it will take time but atleast your giving a half a chance to go ahead with your application there's others who would love to try and go forward and gr that green beret but medical conditions which are total bars don't allow this.

How old are you?
i understand your point completley and if i thought there was any chance i would faint i think it would be extremely irresponsible to put myself in a combat situation. im 17 years old and my last faint was just after my 14th birthday
 

JWJ

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The letter from your AFCO is standard, its acknowledging Captia's decision to make you PMU. The bit about having no automatic right of appeal is basically saying you can't just appeal for the sake of appealing - you require actual grounds to form the basis of an appeal for example misdiagnosis, Captia error etc. Appealing against the JSP and medical standards wont work, regardless of if a specialist assures the medical cell you'd be fine in training.

The JSP has the following on fainting, just so you know what you're working with

14. Simple faint. These have definite provoking factors, are unlikely to occur whilst lying or sitting and are benign in nature. Candidates with non-recurring faints may be graded P2. Candidates with recurring faints are normally graded P8.

15. Unexplained loss of consciousness or altered awareness. Candidates who have had a single episode with no definite provoking factors, who have normal cardiac and neurological examination and a normal ECG, may be graded P2 providing 12 months have elapsed since the episode and they are considered to be at low risk of recurrence. Candidates with recurring episodes where no underlying cause can be found should normally be graded P8.

P2 = Fit for service
P8 = PMU
 

laughinqlad19

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The letter from your AFCO is standard, its acknowledging Captia's decision to make you PMU. The bit about having no automatic right of appeal is basically saying you can't just appeal for the sake of appealing - you require actual grounds to form the basis of an appeal for example misdiagnosis, Captia error etc. Appealing against the JSP and medical standards wont work, regardless of if a specialist assures the medical cell you'd be fine in training.

The JSP has the following on fainting, just so you know what you're working with

14. Simple faint. These have definite provoking factors, are unlikely to occur whilst lying or sitting and are benign in nature. Candidates with non-recurring faints may be graded P2. Candidates with recurring faints are normally graded P8.

15. Unexplained loss of consciousness or altered awareness. Candidates who have had a single episode with no definite provoking factors, who have normal cardiac and neurological examination and a normal ECG, may be graded P2 providing 12 months have elapsed since the episode and they are considered to be at low risk of recurrence. Candidates with recurring episodes where no underlying cause can be found should normally be graded P8.

P2 = Fit for service
P8 = PMU
thanks that clears things up a bit. can you tell me how i can see the jsp stuff at its original source
 

JWJ

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Forgot to add, I was made PMU and went through the notions of gathering evidence, pursuing doctors and getting as much as I could to try to fight it. 5 months later found it was Capita error and all I had to do was send my full history....

Ref. Different medical standards for other services, its still worth banging in a application to the Army and RAF in the case your appeal fails, they can only deny you.

I found a link to JSP 950 in a forum post, but can't remember where it was, I'm sure if you do enough digging you'll find the link to it.
 

laughinqlad19

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Forgot to add, I was made PMU and went through the notions of gathering evidence, pursuing doctors and getting as much as I could to try to fight it. 5 months later found it was Capita error and all I had to do was send my full history....

Ref. Different medical standards for other services, its still worth banging in a application to the Army and RAF in the case your appeal fails, they can only deny you.

I found a link to JSP 950 in a forum post, but can't remember where it was, I'm sure if you do enough digging you'll find the link to it.
thanks very much and well done on your appeal. and one last question lads. i know it says reoccurring with no underlying causes. i think my consultant can make a very good case that it was linked to a huge growth spurt and basically my veins not catching up with my body sounds wierd i know and thats just laymans terms and how it was explaind to me. i am also looking to replicate a test which is basically designed to make you faint
 

JWJ

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Sounds like that could be your appeal angle.

How many episodes of fainting did you have? Like was it one period of them that lasted a while or was it multiple bouts of them.

I'd recommend seeing your consultant, show him the letter and this whole section of the JSP which refers to fainting to use as a guide as to what you're trying to appeal against and the standard, he or she will have a good idea if your circumstances could win an appeal.

Whole section regarding fainting:

Loss of Consciousness/altered awareness

13. A full history should be taken including note of any pro-dromal symptoms, length of unconsciousness, degree of amnesia and any confusion on recovery. Candidates with symptoms suggestive of a cardiovascular or neurological aetiology must be fully investigated. The results of any cardiological and neurological investigations must be normal or any underlying abnormalities fully treated before acceptance can be considered.

14. Simple faint. These have definite provoking factors, are unlikely to occur whilst lying or sitting and are benign in nature. Candidates with non-recurring faints may be graded P2. Candidates with recurring faints are normally graded P8.

15. Unexplained loss of consciousness or altered awareness. Candidates who have had a single episode with no definite provoking factors, who have normal cardiac and neurological examination and a normal ECG, may be graded P2 providing 12 months have elapsed since the episode and they are considered to be at low risk of recurrence[109]. Candidates with recurring episodes where no underlying cause can be found should normally be graded P8.

16. Loss of consciousness/altered awareness where epilepsy is strongly suspected. Factors that may indicate that epilepsy is a likely diagnosis include amnesia for more than 5 minutes, injury, tongue biting, incontinence, having remained conscious but with confused behaviour and post

[109]Based on DVLA medical standards criteria.
 

laughinqlad19

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Thanks so much bud. Nah I fainted twice in the space of about 3 months. I then did a tilt table test which trys to get you to faint ant I did faint. Since tgen I've been completely fine and I would pass on the tilt table today
 

JWJ

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Thanks so much bud. Nah I fainted twice in the space of about 3 months. I then did a tilt table test which trys to get you to faint ant I did faint. Since tgen I've been completely fine and I would pass on the tilt table today
I tried to find the DVLA's definiton of 'recurrent' as referenced in the JSP thats the definition they work by, and I couldn't, maybe your consultant will know it, and presumably if your history doesn't fit that defition i.e you arnt seen as recurrent by the DVLA that'd be grounds for appeal along with the consultant proving there were 'definite provoking factor's'

Obviously I'm just going off my unprofessional knowledge, the best people to contact are Ninja/Chubb, your AFCO and your consultant.
 
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laughinqlad19

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I tried to find the DVLA's definiton of 'recurrent' as referenced in the JSP thats the definition they work by, and I couldn't, maybe your consultant will know it, and presumably if your history doesn't fit that defition i.e you arnt seen as recurrent by the DVLA that'd be grounds for appeal along with the consultant proving there were 'definite provoking factor's'

Obviously I'm just going off my unprofessional knowledge, the best people to contact are Ninja/Chubb, your AFCO and your consultant.
Thank you
 

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Oddly enough, in one of my local AFCOs we were discussing the AFCO medical rejection letter only yesterday. The general consensus appears to be that it is unnecessary as it causes confusion, gives no definitive direction and kicks the candidate in the teeth by basically telling them twice that they have not met the medical standard.

Post #1 illustrates my point and I'll hopefully help get it either suspended from the selection process system or help get it revised to become an advisory letter on how to go about an appeal if you dispute the diagnosis or the interpretation of the diagnosis.
 
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laughinqlad19

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Oddly enough, in one of my local AFCOs we were discussing the AFCO medical rejection letter only yesterday. The general consensus appears to be that it is unnecessary as it causes confusion, gives no definitive direction and kicks the candidate in the teeth by basically telling them twice that they have not met the medical standard.

Post #1 illustrates my point and I'll hopefully help get it either suspended from the selection process system or help get it revised to become an advisory letter on how to go about an appeal if you dispute the diagnosis or the interpretation of the diagnosis.
Ya its tough because i was doing a good job convincing myself the appeal would work and staying positive and keeping my phys up and then I get an abrupt reminder it might not work. Anyways I'll just carry-on as before keep my phys up because if the appeal does work and I am unfit there wouldent have been much point. Now I'm off too a boxing match let's hope I don't faint in the middle of it
 

JWJ

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Oddly enough, in one of my local AFCOs we were discussing the AFCO medical rejection letter only yesterday. The general consensus appears to be that it is unnecessary as it causes confusion, gives no definitive direction and kicks the candidate in the teeth by basically telling them twice that they have not met the medical standard.

Post #1 illustrates my point and I'll hopefully help get it either suspended from the selection process system or help get it revised to become an advisory letter on how to go about an appeal if you dispute the diagnosis or the interpretation of the diagnosis.

Having it as a advisory letter would be fantastic. For people who are not aware of this website especially; combination of the letter telling them they have no automatic right of appeal and unless you're lucky to have a good CA there's often little experience or knowledge to do with medical appeals.
 
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