Michael Fallon Resigns

Ballista

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41838682

This is still breaking news so I'm not going to speculate too much but it appears this is as a result of him being outed as having touched a female journalist's knee at a dinner a few years back. (Which she described as 'mildly amusing' and didn't think of as anything serious.)

Can't say I'm too sad to see the back of him, defence secretaries are usually the biggest lickspittles in the cabinet and masters of evasiveness and Fallon was no different. Would be nice to get someone with a spine but that would be wishful thinking.
 

GreyWing

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This is still breaking news so I'm not going to speculate too much but it appears this is as a result of him being outed as having touched a female journalist's knee at a dinner a few years back.

Give it a day or so for the real reason to come out. I don't know what it is yet, no idea in fact, but doubt it was just that one incident.

Unless they just finally realised he was a walking embarrassment.
 

northmonkeySW

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The full list of the 36 MPs going round has been fully released on the US Observer website (owned by Trump's son-in-law, Kushner)- Fallon is named for more than just the journalist's knee incident - and it's been hinted that there were other incidents more recently.

Interested to see who takes the post next.
 

Ballista

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Give it a day or so for the real reason to come out. I don't know what it is yet, no idea in fact, but doubt it was just that one incident.

Unless they just finally realised he was a walking embarrassment.

Yes, it would seem a little odd to resign over a 15 year old incident, especially when the lady who received the leg touching didn't think much of it, so perhaps there's more.
 

Ballista

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The full list of the 36 MPs going round has been fully released on the US Observer website (owned by Trump's son-in-law, Kushner)- Fallon is named for more than just the journalist's knee incident - and it's been hinted that there were other incidents more recently.

Interested to see who takes the post next.

It's likely. Though I'm being careful about taking some of the allegations too seriously at this point. A lot of it is just gossip or pretty trivial 'incidents'. Rory Stewart MP was on the list but he and the lady who supposedly was on the receiving end of his claimed inappropriate behaviour have both said it is completely false.
 

GreyWing

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The full list of the 36 MPs going round has been fully released on the US Observer website (owned by Trump's son-in-law, Kushner)- Fallon is named for more than just the journalist's knee incident - and it's been hinted that there were other incidents more recently.

Interested to see who takes the post next.

Oh, good spot mate. Just read it and you are right. Looks like rumours of Fallon having a reputation on both sides of the - shall we say - pond -nailbiting-.

It's likely. Though I'm being careful about taking some of the allegations too seriously at this point. A lot of it is just gossip or pretty trivial 'incidents'. Rory Stewart MP was on the list but he and the lady who supposedly was on the receiving end of his claimed inappropriate behaviour have both said it is completely false.

Good point. From the dossier it doesn't appear Fallon has done or has been accused of anything illegal or extraordinary anyway. I just find it funny to watch as they eat their own.

Wonder if the Government will even survive into the new year.
 

GreyWing

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It's likely. Though I'm being careful about taking some of the allegations too seriously at this point. A lot of it is just gossip or pretty trivial 'incidents'. Rory Stewart MP was on the list but he and the lady who supposedly was on the receiving end of his claimed inappropriate behaviour have both said it is completely false.

Just read some of the rebuttals of people in that list and got to say that you are right. The list seems to lack credibility and no evidence whatsoever it is anything more than gossip. Some of it even seems malicious.
 
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Attitudes have changed massively in a generation. Touching/ commenting that may seem innocent and acceptable to the perpetrator can be unpleasant and threatening to the person on the receiving end. I tend to agree that judging historical events by the new standards is unfair and memories are not always accurate. But where concerns were raised at the time and then ignored because the senior figure is protected over the junior, that is wrong. No one should feel that they are above the law.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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But to convict someone of something that happened 10/20/30 years ago, on no evidence other than 1 witness statement is madness.
Witness statements are the weakest form of evidence. And regret isn’t rape.

It’s all fine and well banging the drum 20/30 years later, but it does naff all. Facts don’t care about your feelings. The court of law works off of innocent until proven guilty. And the burden of truth lies with the accuser.

Let’s take The Harvey Weinstein thing, all these people suddenly coming forward now, but were happy to keep quiet when they engaged in a physical transaction for a job, but closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Where were their scruples when it was happening? It could have prevented further attacks.

But of course it’s all over played and manipulated by the mainstream media for their own agenda to further segregate, divide and fuel hate, but ultimately to make money.
 

Chelonian

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But to convict someone of something that happened 10/20/30 years ago, on no evidence other than 1 witness statement is madness.

Clearly Sir Michael Fallon hasn't been convicted of anything. His decision to resign may be based on his own knowledge—and the knowledge of the Whips' Office—that more of his past groping conduct is about to come back to haunt him by being splashed across the news media.

Low level perving may not always meet the benchmark of being criminal but it generally brands the 'offender' as being a fool and a laughing stock. Not quite the attributes one seeks in Secretary of State for Defence.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Clearly Sir Michael Fallon hasn't been convicted of anything. His decision to resign may be based on his own knowledge—and the knowledge of the Whips' Office—that more of his past groping conduct is about to come back to haunt him by being splashed across the news media.

Low level perving may not always meet the benchmark of being criminal but it generally brands the 'offender' as being a fool and a laughing stock. Not quite the attributes one seeks in Secretary of State for Defence.

Yea! Seen! Poorly worded, but the idea is the same.

But was it low level perving? Or a generational difference? I helped out at an old folks home one Christmas, and the old dears were quite handsy, but it s homely, endearing way. People weren’t scared of human touch back in the day.
 

Chelonian

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But was it low level perving? Or a generational difference?

A good question. But the answer is likely to be subjective and to depend on personal perception. The media will always choose to rev up the 'outrage bus' because that sells more content than laughing it off as being amusing, prehistoric behaviour.

I too have been groped by a few old biddys in nursing care homes. Punched by some too! So I sympathise. :) Despite this, I fully support what is known as the 'hugs, not drugs' approach to relating with the elderly mentally infirm.

I'm baffled by some elements of the 'generational' argument currently being touted though. The notion that back in 2000 it was 'acceptable' to grab a handful of junior employee flesh is absurd. Such behaviour was equally unacceptable even back in the 1970s.

But perception does matter: I had breakfast earlier today with a bunch of stable lasses, the largest and hairiest of whom was grumbling—between mouthfuls of egg, bacon and toast—that she wanted to get herself a job which would increase her chances of being sexually harrassed at work.
 

Rover

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Yea! Seen! Poorly worded, but the idea is the same.

But was it low level perving? Or a generational difference? I helped out at an old folks home one Christmas, and the old dears were quite handsy, but it s homely, endearing way. People weren’t scared of human touch back in the day.


Does this mean that the BBC will not do any re-runs of the Benny Hill classics this Christmas!:(o_O
 

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The main thing for me isn't what Fallon has or hasn't done to be honest. It's more he was as guilty as anyone of creating this culture of Political Correctness over the last 10-15 years. Now he's been eaten by the crocodile he fed others to.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Got to wonder though if there was a possibility he was being blackmailed as Defence Secretary. If you don't cut the RM's, we'll out you for XYZ?

 
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A good question. But the answer is likely to be subjective and to depend on personal perception. The media will always choose to rev up the 'outrage bus' because that sells more content than laughing it off as being amusing, prehistoric behaviour.

I too have been groped by a few old biddys in nursing care homes. Punched by some too! So I sympathise. :) Despite this, I fully support what is known as the 'hugs, not drugs' approach to relating with the elderly mentally infirm.

I'm baffled by some elements of the 'generational' argument currently being touted though. The notion that back in 2000 it was 'acceptable' to grab a handful of junior employee flesh is absurd. Such behaviour was equally unacceptable even back in the 1970s.

But perception does matter: I had breakfast earlier today with a bunch of stable lasses, the largest and hairiest of whom was grumbling—between mouthfuls of egg, bacon and toast—that she wanted to get herself a job which would increase her chances of being sexually harrassed at work.
Maybe it was unacceptable in 2000 but there was still the attitude that it was something you had to put up with. I think most people are very aware of the difference between the unwelcome nature of low level perving by relative strangers, 'frottisseurs' on a crowded tube train etc and the kindness which motivates warm human contact. They are very different.
 

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I think most people are very aware of the difference between the unwelcome nature of low level perving by relative strangers, 'frottisseurs' on a crowded tube train etc and the kindness which motivates warm human contact.

A new word to me. I shall use it as often as circumstance permits! :)
 
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An attempt at politeness! I think in fact the word should be 'frotteurs'.
If you are ever in the situation of a close encounter with one such person, there are probably many words better suited to the situation!​
 

Chelonian

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An attempt at politeness! I think in fact the word should be 'frotteurs'.

I prefer the first word. It suggests one who has an unhealthy obsession with the activity.
Not that a healthy obsession is a good thing either, obviously.
 
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ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Maybe it was unacceptable in 2000 but there was still the attitude that it was something you had to put up with. I think most people are very aware of the difference between the unwelcome nature of low level perving by relative strangers, 'frottisseurs' on a crowded tube train etc and the kindness which motivates warm human contact. They are very different.

You have clearly never been a teenage boy working in a factory with Mature women.

Or experienced any Hen Party ever.

Or experienced every other nationality of women, while wearing a kilt.

Or drunk gay men make advances on you.

It’s not exclusive to women.


You had to put up with it, because you let yourself be.
And not communicating for 20/30 years isn’t going to help fix the situation.
 
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