Military Spending UK v Russia

[GreyWing]

Surely this can't be right, latest figures according to several sources.

Russia: $69.3 billion
UK $56.9 Billion

They are flying round in all sorts of new and wonderful aircraft, top of the range anti-aircraft systems and hypersonic nukes.

Where is all our cash going if they can do that with just a touch more?

 

[Guest]

Surely this can't be right, latest figures according to several sources.

Russia: $69.3 billion
UK $56.9 Billion

They are flying round in all sorts of new and wonderful aircraft, top of the range anti-aircraft systems and hypersonic nukes.

Where is all our cash going if they can do that with just a touch more?

I wondered about that too. I am probably wrong but Do the uk figure includes the pensions, which are probably a lot higher than in Russia (probably, I am only hazarding a guess). I assume uk troops are paid more too, as does acquiring land.

 

[Illustrious]

It'll be what you can't see. Russian subs wouldn't be able to compete against our own for example.

 

[AquaPara]

There was an article in the Times maybe 2 days ago about a similar topic of discussion regarding the Chinese arms with the west.

China have raised their military spending to £125 billion yet plan to unveil a new aircraft carrier in April as well as jets to rival the F35 Lightning, a new nuclear powered submarine and new destroyers to their fleet.

However, it is claimed that projects like these can be listed as 'off the book expenditures', maybe the Russians are doing something similar?

H

 

[Chelonian]

Russia: $69.3 billion
UK $56.9 Billion

UK defence spending for 2016/2017 was £35·3 billion. Making it the "5th biggest defence budget in the world" according to a UK government source:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...K_Defence_in_Numbers_2017_-_Update_17_Oct.pdf

See page 4 of the PDF, although the actual page is number 2.

As far as Russia is concerned, one (reasonably) credible source states:

"The country boosted its military spending to $69.2 billion in 2016, according to a new report from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). The 5.9% increase landed Russia behind only the United States and China in the ranking of top spenders."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/news/russia-military-spending/index.html

 

[ThreadpigeonsAlpha]

Depends what you are spending it on....

Diversity and hurt feelings won’t get you much in the way of soldiering.

Police came under criticism for painting a police car rainbow colours after complaining about a lack of funding, then it turns out there is an actual diversity budget......

Society is doomed lads.

 

[GreyWing]

It'll be what you can't see. Russian subs wouldn't be able to compete against our own for example.

I'm not sure that is the case anymore mate. They launched this one last year and more to follow.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4990018/russia-vladimir-putin-nuclear-submarine-borei-knyaz-navy/

One thing Putin did say last year is that things need to be affordable going forward. You don't send a £5 million pound missile to take out a $150 drone. They had some focus shift towards scaling down costs on the battlefield.

I wondered about that too. I am probably wrong but Do the uk figure includes the pensions, which are probably a lot higher than in Russia (probably, I am only hazarding a guess). I assume uk troops are paid more too, as does acquiring land.

Not sure which budget the MOD pensions come out of, to be honest. I assume like all employers they pay National Insurance across to HMRC and HMRC will pay the state pension. But for the extra service bits I would have to bow out to someone more familiar with it than myself.

I think the Russian Army is still a conscript force, trying to professionalise but not there yet. That should save them a few quid but can't see it making up that much.

However, it is claimed that projects like these can be listed as 'off the book expenditures', maybe the Russians are doing something similar?

Could be mate. Strangely, our Governments have been known to try and throw any cost into the MOD budget so they can claim to meet the 35 NATO GDP spending targets. Russia and China might be playing theirs down.

 

[arny01]

Society is doomed lads.

It pays to be a failure

 

[R]

It'll be what you can't see. Russian subs wouldn't be able to compete against our own for example.

Russian naval capacity is actually very good, especially in submarines. As @ThreadpigeonsAlpha said above its not the budget size but rather what capacities that budget is spent on.

Russia's military is much bigger than ours, they have modernised their forces in the last 10 years aggressively, and developed new tech to expand on their capacities. But have retained soviet era technologies that are simple, cheaper to maintain and work. Artillery being a very good example.

Syria and the Ukraine have via proxy conflicts allowed alot of test and adjust with land/air capabilities. If something global was to kick off the combination of proven Technics and a solid supply chain cant be discounted. The most we could do is hope to hold their forces back long enough for the US to come in to counter Russian sheer mass. Happy thoughts!

 

[Chelonian]

If something global was to kick off the combination of proven Technics and a solid supply chain cant be discounted.

My bold. Historically, this is the important bit which wins a war, rather than only a battle.

In the 1970s credible sources estimated that the USSR would have ground to a halt within days had it invaded westwards.

Going back further to WW2 Adolf Hitler's plans to invade the UK mainland relied massively on thousands of horses for heavy haulage. It appears comical but it's easier to feed beasts off the land in summer than it is to access fuel which can be denied by resistance forces.

 

[R]

In the 1970s credible sources estimated that the USSR would have ground to a halt within days had it invaded westwards.

I'm not sure about in the 70's. But i do know that the west was surprised by the scale of bunker networks, stores and mobile systems the USSR had stashed in Germany, and the Warsaw Pact countries, which they previously hadnt been aware of in invasion planning until after the Soviet System collapsed.

I saw a press release recently talking about Russia finishing its 8th factory as part of a contract awarded to produce a particular type of heavy armour. Makes me wonder what the true scale of the present day supply chain might be?