Munich Kicking Off

Ninja_Stoker

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It's becoming so common that we are almost becoming familiar with events such as this.

Whilst there is no doubt terrorism at the scene of the incident certainly causes terror, those of us not involved no longer seem to be shocked.

In the case of a lone gunman it's easy to dismiss the individual as a lunatic in isolation, but when there are several (at least three reported so far in this incident - assuming that is actually correct) acting in unison it becomes surreal. In this case, it is beginning to sound like some extreme right-wing anti immigration extremists at the centre of the slaying, according to some reports. Not ISIS(?).

How the hell these acts of murder actually achieve anything beyond mayhem is hard to understand. What do they achieve?
 

Proximo

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What do they achieve?

Trying to ignite conflict mainly.

ISIS want Salafi Jihadi thought to become mainstream, so they want Muslims to feel disenfranchised and to sever their ties and either flee to what they believe to be the Caliphate, or take up the fight wherever they find themselves.

The (non-Islamist) Far-Right mostly believe that a war between 'natives' and migrants (or white and non-white, or muslim and non-muslim, etc - it varies) is inevitable and that either governments should act to avoid such a war (using draconian measures including mass deportations), or that it it is preferable to have that war now while one side has the upper hand.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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I told everyone years ago that Europe would break into civil war in our generation.

This is just the beginning. It's too deep rooted.

The right are too hate filled and frustrated. And the regressive left are just not in this reality anymore.
And the media don't care, just make money and stir up hatred.

And people wonder why hate groups are growing in popularity? People wonder why trump is popular and growing in popularity.

People are fed up, tired, frustrated. I for one am increasingly tired and frustrated about having this racism and multiculturalism, and left wing hipster crap shoved down my throat. Told how to think, censored by my blinkered peers. People scared to ask questions or think for themselves. Facts and figures ignored in the favour of PC nonsense. Being bred to think not for themselves but to follow procedures and policies and to not dare question them.

It's madness. Cheers EU, seems like you did what you wanted. I fear it's too late even if we have voted brexit

Someone get me a flight to Alaska. I want to go live in the mountains with my dogs and my guns. And be left in peace.


Ironic though, a Muslim shooter is said to "not represent" Islam. And we get told it's not right or the religion. Yet the very idea that this could be a right wing counter attack, and suddenly brexit voters are to blame, the right are to blame. And everyone is just a racist. Tarred with the same brush. The same brush we were told not to tar anyone else with. Where have those goalposts gone? Ah yes! Moved again!

Stuff it. Where's the rum.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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In the case of a lone gunman it's easy to dismiss the individual as a lunatic in isolation, but when there are several (at least three reported so far in this incident - assuming that is actually correct) acting in unison it becomes surreal. In this case, it is beginning to sound like some extreme right-wing anti immigration extremists at the centre of the slaying, according to some reports. Not ISIS(?).

How the hell these acts of murder actually achieve anything beyond mayhem is hard to understand. What do they achieve?

Except sanders Breivik. Who was proved not to be criminally insane. See it's easy to brush off a lone gunman as a lunatic, rather than address their issues. Dehumanises them. Makes it easier to swallow. Not the harsh reality.

Oh it wasn't Islam that killed those Gays in that night club, no it was a repressed homosexual who was lonely. Etc etc.

There were reports that the Orlando shooter was more than 1 person, but the media wanted to portray it as a lone gunman to distract from radical Islam and go with a gun control issue.

What do they acheive? Well the Islamic terrorist believe it achieves less non believers in the world. And almost free advertising for their cause.
This right wing gang are trying to make a stand, like Breivik did, he aimed for A youth Labour Party because he blamed them for their immigration policies.

It's not a person either are fighting for or against. It's an idea. And you can't kill an idea.
 

Proximo

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Nazism is an idea and it didn't stop the Allies killing a lot of them.

Salafi Jihadism and Far-Right militancy (and Far-left militancy), etc, have been around for decades somt say one is the cause of the other is simply imcorrect.

And no one is in denial of the problems of Islamism, or the violent nature of Salafi Jihadism. People are however tired of people trying to exploit the issue to attack Islam and Muslims more generally. And while i'm not left wing, i'm personally tired of of politicising every event and reducing issues down to a conflict between "the left" and "the right" and lazily blaming every ill on 'multiculturalism' or the EU or whatever, and this nonsense abot not being able to raise concerns about genuine securoty issues for "fear of being called racist" and similar *text deleted*.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Nazism is an idea and it didn't stop the Allies killing a lot of them.

Salafi Jihadism and Far-Right militancy (and Far-left militancy), etc, have been around for decades somt say one is the cause of the other is simply imcorrect.

And no one is in denial of the problems of Islamism, or the violent nature of Salafi Jihadism. People are however tired of people getting killed and exploited for Islam. And while i'm not left wing, i'm personally tired of of politicising every event and reducing issues down to a conflict between "the left" and "the right" and lazily blaming every ill on 'multiculturalism' or the EU or whatever, and this nonsense abot not being able to raise concerns about genuine securoty issues for "fear of being called racist" and similar *text deleted*.



point 1. There's still "Nazi" ideas, you do realise there's still a lot neo-nazi gangs and institutions?

Point 2. Yes. A lot of people and media are in denial.

Point 3. Fixed it for you.

Point 4. Agreed, shame it's the left wing media that do it. Reducing issues, or just flat ignoring them. However I do agree that one should sit in the middle and the situation should dictate the response. Be it a left it a right action. Just a shame the left tend to get all emotional and knee jerk out of emotion and not logic.

Point 5. Not lazily blaming, there's evidence and facts and thought behind it, I would be happy to provide some links.

point 6. The police have admitted themselves that they don't want to issue statements for fear of a backlash. A German left wing politician was raped but gave the wrong ethnicity of the rapists for fear of a backlash. Police and politicians in other countries, especially Sweden are scared to raise issue, or to make statements for fear of a backlash.


Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
That's like walking up to a lion and expecting him not to eat you, just because you don't want to eat him.
 

Churchy10

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The scary and unfortunate truth is that we are becoming desensitised to such events as they are becoming increasingly common.

When will this PC madness stop and something be done about this worldwide crisis!?!
 

Proximo

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> point 1. There's still "Nazi" ideas, you do realise there's still a lot neo-nazi gangs and institutions?

Yes, I do. I even used neo-nazis as an example in my post. I was replying to "you cannot kill an idea." You can kill the holders of the idea.

*text deleted* the media, and people who rely on the media for that matter. There are more reputable sources out there, and nothing stopping people finding things for themselves.

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya. Special forces deployed who the *text deleted* knows. Millions pumped i to counter-radicalisation and counter-terorism. Anti and counter terror oerations. Bombing ISIS targets in both Syria and Iraq. Strengthening anti-terror legislation. And so and so on. Things are certainly happening, and the sensetivities of a bunch of *text deleted*ing nobodies does not dictate policy.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Nazism is an idea and it didn't stop the Allies killing a lot of them.

Salafi Jihadism and Far-Right militancy (and Far-left militancy), etc, have been around for decades somt say one is the cause of the other is simply imcorrect.

And no one is in denial of the problems of Islamism, or the violent nature of Salafi Jihadism. People are however tired of people trying to exploit the issue to attack Islam and Muslims more generally. And while i'm not left wing, i'm personally tired of of politicising every event and reducing issues down to a conflict between "the left" and "the right" and lazily blaming every ill on 'multiculturalism' or the EU or whatever, and this nonsense abot not being able to raise concerns about genuine securoty issues for "fear of being called racist" and similar *text deleted*.

And actually, that statement about killing nazis is very misleading, uneducated and a bit offensive.
A lot of the Soldiers and German people were the silent majority and didn't know, or realise the extent of what the Nazi Party did or were doing.
You are doing precisely what I said, your dehumanising an enemy to justify their deaths.

Ironically a bit like radical Muslims branding people "non believers", taking away that human factor.

By that backwards reasoning its justified to either allow Radical Islam to kill as many as they can for their idea. Or to kill as many Muslims for their idea.

In the end. No one wins. Once again, you made a kneejerk comment out of emotion not logic.
 

Proximo

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I've said nothing about your average German soldier of civilian. Unless you want to push the argument that no nazis died im WW2, your reply was dishonest and you've intentionally ignored my point.

You said "you can't kill an idea".

I said "you can kill the holders of the idea".

My point being, in the context of this debate, that action against people who embrace certain viewpoints is entirely possible
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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> point 1. There's still "Nazi" ideas, you do realise there's still a lot neo-nazi gangs and institutions?

Yes, I do. I even used neo-nazis as an example in my post. I was replying to "you cannot kill an idea." You can kill the holders of the idea.

*text deleted* the media, and people who rely on the media for that matter. There are more reputable sources out there, and nothing stopping people finding things for themselves.

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya. Special forces deployed who the *text deleted* knows. Millions pumped i to counter-radicalisation and counter-terorism. Anti and counter terror oerations. Bombing ISIS targets in both Syria and Iraq. Strengthening anti-terror legislation. And so and so on. Things are certainly happening, and the sensetivities of a bunch of *text deleted*ing nobodies does not dictate policy.

The idea is still there. Education combats the idea.
Killing as many as possible? But does that not make us as bad as them?

I completely agree about the media.

Iraq is a bit of a complicated beast, debate for another day. Afghan we were invited in to help them by the Government. Libya and Syria could both have had different outcomes, if we put troops on the ground, instead of just selling arms that end up in the wrong hands, but once again, the lefties kicked off. damn of you do, damned if you don't.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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I've said nothing about your average German soldier of civilian. Unless you want to push the argument that no nazis died I'm WW2, your reply was dishonest and you've intentionally ignored my point.

You said "you can't kill an idea".

I said "you can kill the holders of the idea".

My point being, in the context of this debate, that action against people who embrace certain viewpoints is entirely possible

"Nazism is an idea and it didn't stop the Allies killing a lot of them."

The idea is still there. Education kills the idea.

Is Islam the idea?


We can't take action because the regressive left are tying our own hands behind our back.
 

Proximo

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At this point someone could walk into a Synogogue dressed as an SS Officer, shout "heil hitler" and shoot dead every person he sees and still, somehow, it would be blamed on "pc", "the left", "multiculturalism" and so on.

Personally, I see it like this:

A salafi Jihadi kills someone - Salafi Jiadism is the issue

A neo-nazi kills someone - neo-nazism is the issue
 

Proximo

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"Nazism is an idea and it didn't stop the Allies killing a lot of them."

The idea is still there. Education kills the idea.

Is Islam the idea?


We can't take action because the regressive left are tying our own hands behind our back.

Salafi Jihadism is the issue. Education can combat an idea (this we capl counter-radicalisatiom) but killing people who are motivated to commit violemce as a rssult of that idea is still goimg to happen.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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At this point someone could walk into a Synogogue dressed as an SS Officer, shout "heil hitler" and shoot dead every person he sees and still, somehow, it would be blamed on "pc", "the left", "multiculturalism" and so on.

Personally, I see it like this:

A salafi Jihadi kills someone - Salafi Jiadism is the issue

A neo-nazi kills someone - neo-nazism is the issue

You may see it as that.

But the media sees it as

Salafi jihadi - not really Islam, they must have been lonely or depressed or mentally ill, they don't represent Islam, maybe if we hadn't of stopped him going to Egypt he would have been a good boy, it's because of the oppression he felt from the west, it's not Islam. I feel so sorry for him. Let's not blame a fairytale of manipulation and hatred, it's obviously the Wests fault for not catering to their needs. It's definitely not Islam that's the problem.

Far right/Neo-Nazi - OH MY GOD,Brexit kills.racist, xenophobic monsters! Disgusting! Your all racists. Your all full of hatred. So bigoted. Can you not see? This is Brexit fault. This wouldn't have happened if we were in the EU. He represents all white people. Must be a trump supporter. We need multiculturism. Your culture doesn't matter though.
 

Proximo

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Well as i've said, *text deleted* the media. Focus in the issue.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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10mins onwards holds some good points that could relate to the main topic of this Thread.
 

GreyWing

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The big thing for me now is that I don't really tend to believe the authorities when they say this guy was just a random nutter.

The German's have covered up rapes, violent attacks. The Swedes have also colluded in covering up attacks. The French kept secret that many victims at the Bataclan were tortured. The UK authorities tend to be playing down the fact two men of middle eastern origin trying to abuduct a servicemen outside his airbase had anything to do with terrorism.

The French truck driver was being made out to be a random one man nutter for the first 48 hours. That now looks to be not true.

As for this guy yesterday, it might be true that he was a one man nutter and nothing to do with anything but school bullying - but I'm not ready to believe it like I would have many years ago. Put it this way, it wouldn't be a surprise to me that in 5 years, they admitted that there was more to this than is being admitted presently.

Either way, they haven't told the truth on these things so I think people are forgiven for being sceptical.
 
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