National Service

Discussion in 'Current & Military Affairs Discussion Forum.' started by 03092014, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

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    Well it's not pointless when all those countries have the death penalty yet still have had large scale terrorist attacks. I'm not talking about 'other crimes' or passionate crimes just terrorism.

    Reintroduce National Service? No way, it wouldn't work.
     
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Careers Adviser

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    I seriously wonder whether conscription and National Service could actually be enforced in our enlightened society nowadays.
     
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  3. TwoElls

    TwoElls Member

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    First lets address the fact that these countries are completely different from America, and this does mean something. Imagine you have a child who is vaccinated from everything you would expect from a 1st world country. The second is only vaccinated against smallpox. The second then dies of polio. "look guys vaccinations clearly don't work". The terrorism rate in those other 3 countries dwarfs the attacks in the whole of Europe. You just don't hear about it, because no one cries for the river of blood in Syria. Just Paris.

    Second, National Service wouldn't work? Care to elaborate?
     
  4. C

    C Guest

    I just don't see any appetite for it in the general public, particularly amongst young people. If there were a genuine threat to mainland UK then it might change but the wars we fight aren't so clear cut a body of volunteer service personnel may have grievances about a particular operation but imagine if many of them were forced to be there against their will.

    This thread seems to have de-railed somewhat.
     
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  5. TwoElls

    TwoElls Member

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    Politics always does. Someone need not like what is good for the country, only to do it.
     
  6. C

    C Guest

    I'd argue that a conscripted force whilst it may have sheer mass on its side would be less effective than a volunteer force of significantly smaller numbers. You hear a lot of anecdotes from The Falklands War about the lack of commitment in Argentine conscripts.

    From a moral point of view as well I'd object to it, who says what is good for the country, was Iraq? It's one thing to be governed by people you disagree with its another to, against your will, be sent risking life and limb to do their dirty work.

    EDIT: If this debate is to continue it should probably have its own thread as its swerved quite far from the original topic now.
     
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  7. arny01

    arny01 Ex Pongo.

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    If you want a professional capable fighting force. You need people who actually want to be there, for all the right reasons. You only need look at history to see the effects of a conscripted fighting force. Namely the Falklands conflict, and more recently the first Gulf War and Second.

    Theres no doubt that the military system does work, from a discipline point of view. It's sorted many a rough diamond out!! :D
     
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  8. TwoElls

    TwoElls Member

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    It's less about the military, and more about hammering respect and obedience into the youth of today. It's the skills and mentality learned for when they're back to being a civ.
     
  9. arny01

    arny01 Ex Pongo.

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    It shouldn't be the job of the military to sort out the youth of today. That's what parents are supposed to do.
     
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  10. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

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    I don't even know where to begin with your first point. Thanks for pointing out terrorist attacks happen outside of Paris though, I didn't realise that.

    National Service wouldn't work for a number of reason outlined above but simply where would all these people go and be trained? The Armed Forces have been cut so dramatically in the last 6 years they could hardly justify making people redundant one year then conscripting a load more the next.

    Ultimately though it would cost money and I don't think the tax payer would be so keen to see money wasted on shoving thousands of people through military training, providing food and accommodation etc all in the name of 'teaching discipline'.
     
  11. TwoElls

    TwoElls Member

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    It's more than just discipline, but as C said, conversation is off topic.
     
  12. DhobiWanKenobi

    DhobiWanKenobi Royal Marines Commando

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    New thread to continue this national service conversation.
     
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  13. CSVern

    CSVern Active Member

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    Would you really want to be in training with those who were forced to be there? It'll be tough enough already without someone whinging from day one, just waiting for a chance to shoot themselves in the foot.
     
  14. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando

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    It's a different mindset nowadays. There are still former NS Marines around and they are extremely proud of their service. The expectations of the youths of the 1950s, who knew that they would be called up, are in stark contrast to the youths of today.

    Whilst I expect the majority of any conscripts would accept their fate and get on with what was expected of them, there would be some who would challenge the system and whilst the TTs would be more than capable of dealing with these people, the question has to asked; why should they?

    They are there to train up civilians to be part of a fighting force, be it the Army, Navy, RAF or the RM. They are not there to put right the wrongs of parents and society.

    It is simply wrong to expect others to put right the actions of those who have abdicated their responsibilities in the past.

    Alan
     
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  15. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Conscription worked in wartime and would probably work again in similar circumstances. But for many National Servicemen—women were not required to serve—the experience interrupted their education, training or job for very little advantage to society. Arguably, the cost of finding pointless activity for many in NS outweighed the benefit.

    Aas suggested by others, National Service as a solution to perceived flaws in attitude and society does not bear close scrutiny.
     
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  16. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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    To play devils advocate it could probably go some way to helping fight obesity. Ultimately though it is what @Chelonian says:
    Interestingly I was just reading up about it and according to wikipedia (may or may not be a realiable source): "From early 1942 unmarried women age 19–30 were conscripted."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#United_Kingdom
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom
     
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  17. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Correct. Many women served with distinction either in uniform or in other war work during hostilities. Sadly they were unceremoniously evicted from many jobs when hostilities ended.
     
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  18. cc1

    cc1 RAF Commando Officer (former RM)

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    The only men I want in my section are ones that want to be there.
     
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  19. BoxSwallow

    BoxSwallow Active Member

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  20. old-lynx-mech

    old-lynx-mech Active Member

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    Airborne and commando forces were volunteers even during conscription as far as I am aware. Yes they were conscripts but then needed to 'volunteer'
     
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