NAV guru required

Vine

Veteran Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Posts
561
Reaction score
434
Making a case for my compass and I’m looking at add distance speed times on it anyone know the maths for it (due to the fact the only counting I can do is my wages) and not sure how exactly to work it out ? Seen a lad with it a while back and it was bombers.

ie 1km=20mins
750m=15mins
500m=10min
250m=5mins
100m=2:30

that sort of idea I know that’s know accurate. Just going off average pacing on a nav ex with patrolling kit on ?
 

Chelonian

Moderator
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Posts
11,825
Reaction score
14,892
Just going off average pacing on a nav ex with patrolling kit on ?
Aside from the difficulty of terrain the ascent and descent can have a significant influence.
I'd suggest Googling Naismith's Rule to get a grip on the theory of this stuff. It's actually interesting to apply the theory out on the ground because this is what builds confidence.
 

thirdtry

Valuable Contributor
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Posts
488
Reaction score
689
Don't want to be 'that guy' but honestly your pacing is entirely dependent on the terrain, kit, conditions underfoot etc etc so I don't necessarily agree with having one fixed set of timings; on the one hand we can all say "I'll take this into account on the day" but on the other, it can very quickly become a crutch and lead to mistakes.

Unless of course you just want a quick reference sheet for different times at different speeds? In which case very easy to make your own (use a calculator if you need!) and lanyard it. There are surplus/kit shops that sell premade ones as far as I know too, little crib cards available online.
 

Vine

Veteran Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Posts
561
Reaction score
434
Aside from the difficulty of terrain the ascent and descent can have a significant influence.
I'd suggest Googling Naismith's Rule to get a grip on the theory of this stuff. It's actually interesting to apply the theory out on the ground because this is what builds confidence.
Naismiths rule was the one I’ve heard. I just need a broad stokes as a guideline with obvious of going uphill is going to be slower and downhill quicker if you’re hanging out etc it’s only a basic guideline. Cheers.
Don't want to be 'that guy' but honestly your pacing is entirely dependent on the terrain, kit, conditions underfoot etc etc so I don't necessarily agree with having one fixed set of timings; on the one hand we can all say "I'll take this into account on the day" but on the other, it can very quickly become a crutch and lead to mistakes.

Unless of course you just want a quick reference sheet for different times at different speeds? In which case very easy to make your own (use a calculator if you need!) and lanyard it. There are surplus/kit shops that sell premade ones as far as I know too, little crib cards available online.
Little crib cards would be a excellent idea actually. I could store in with my compass I’ll go for that idea. As above just a guideline ground fatigue etc would be taken into account
 

thirdtry

Valuable Contributor
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Posts
488
Reaction score
689
Quickest way also would just be to draw up a little table - timings at 3kph, timings at 4kph, timings at 5kph etc etc.

But you need to be quite confident in knowing what different paces feel like. When I did my civvy ML I could happily set a 3kph pace (the assessment standard) and stick to it with almost no need to check my watch because I was so in-sync with myself. But now, 6 months since I last got into the mountains properly (other than a few Selection routes with a serving mate over Christmas), I would not be confident doing the same without regular S/D/T checks and lots of micro nav checks.

As Chelonian says, best way to get used to it is to be out doing it. Make it regular and beware the skill fade comes quite rapid with it. I always think you're only as good as your last day on the hill.
 

Chelonian

Moderator
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Posts
11,825
Reaction score
14,892
Naismiths rule was the one I’ve heard. I just need a broad stokes as a guideline with obvious of going uphill is going to be slower and downhill quicker if you’re hanging out etc it’s only a basic guideline.
A standard civilian benchmark used to be the ability to achieve a consistent 10% accuracy on the ground to what was calculated. It takes a lot of practice to achieve this and as you say it is only a basic guideline. Definitely has its uses though.
 

thirdtry

Valuable Contributor
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Posts
488
Reaction score
689
Reference crib cards - we used to sell them in the military kit shop I worked at for a few months during lockdown. Not sure the rules on commercial links (if I can even find it on their website myself) but if you search navigation crib cards online I imagine you'll find them easily enough.

Likewise there's a small independent brand run by a couple of mountaineering instructors with the same sort of tool available online, again can't help you with the name as I don't remember but you should again find it with relative ease if you have a scan.
 

Vine

Veteran Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Posts
561
Reaction score
434
Reference crib cards - we used to sell them in the military kit shop I worked at for a few months during lockdown. Not sure the rules on commercial links (if I can even find it on their website myself) but if you search navigation crib cards online I imagine you'll find them easily enough.

Likewise there's a small independent brand run by a couple of mountaineering instructors with the same sort of tool available online, again can't help you with the name as I don't remember but you should again find it with relative ease if you have a scan.
I’ll have a look and see what’s available, can always type some up print them off myself and laminate them but it’s a really good idea to have them.
A standard civilian benchmark used to be the ability to achieve a consistent 10% accuracy on the ground to what was calculated. It takes a lot of practice to achieve this and as you say it is only a basic guideline. Definitely has its uses though.
Yeah I’ll go back over that and check it out it’s another good shout to know.
 

Rob20

Royal Marines Commando Moderator
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Posts
2,354
Reaction score
3,507
Im not bad reference SDT and quick maths etc.

3kph
1km = 20 mins
500m = 10 mins
100m = 2 mins
50m = 1 min

4kph
1km = 15 mins
500m = 7.5 mins
100m = 1.5 mins
50m = 45 secs

5kph
1km = 12 mins
500m = 6 mins
100m = 1min 12 secs
50m = 36 secs

Clearly you dont need numbers for every number like 700m etc. Just use the other measurements to add or subtract.

So example if moving at 4kph how long will 1450m take?
1km = 15 mins
500m - 50m = 6 mins 45 secs

Added together 21 mins 45 secs

Apply Naismiths rule to the ground and you'll be there or there abouts.

Best thing to do is time and count your paces over say 10x 100m clean fatigue, fighting order and full marching order to ascertain your own speeds with certain bits of kit etc.

Same with pacings, do a pacing lane going up hill, down hill, running, striding it out and patrolling tactically etc.

Then you have all the info you need. Hope that helped
 

Advocado

Royal Marines Commando
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Posts
295
Reaction score
765
Here's a couple tricks to help with nav on the ground. Working out SDT on the move with simple sums in your head.

Typically a bergen move is usually at around 3km per hour and a patrol order move sits around 4km per hour. Again, with experience you'll get these movement speeds down to a fine art.

For 3km per hour every 2 minutes is 100m so thats easy to work out.

1600m (16x 100m) (16 x 2 = 32) 32 minutes.

4700m - 47 x 2 = 94. 94 minutes.

300m - 3 x 2 = 6. 6 minutes.

Now for 4km per hour there is a nice little trick that ONLY works with this pace.

Using a similar method as above, but this time half the distance, add it on then convert that to time.

Examples:

5200m at 4km per hour.

52 ÷ 2 = 26.
52 + 26 = 78.

78 minutes.

600m at 4km per hour.

6 ÷ 2 = 3
6 + 3 = 9

600m at 4km per hour will take 9 minutes.

1500m at 4km per hour

15 ÷ 2 = 7.5
15 + 7.5 = 22.5

1500m at 4km per hour will take you 22 minutes and 30 seconds.

This is really helpful for working out SDT on the move. Imagine you reach a checkpoint and your corporal asks how long your next leg will take. Rather looking like a rabbit in the headlights getting your red light, route card and scientific calculator out prior to doing some crazy algebra mixed with pacings, time, barometric pressure and the density of the moon, just a simple sentence such as:
'I'm travelling at 4km per hour for a total of 1800 metres so it will take me 27 minutes.' (18 ÷ 2 = 9, 18 + 9 = 27) will no doubt impress your training team.
 

Vine

Veteran Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Posts
561
Reaction score
434
Superb lads hugely appreciated cheers.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
L Night Nav RMR Section and RMR Selection 15
News VIDEO: Blast off for sat-nav satellites Military News and Clips 0
Kentish New Sat-Nav. Jollies Bar 1
Similar threads



Top