New flashes?

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Just on the topic of this makeover. Are C8s being rolled out to all Cdo units now?

I recall reading that C8s handle frangible rounds better. Apparently for ship operations the use of 5.56 frangible is to minimise the ricochet risk. Apparently the SA80 family doesn't like frangible rounds.
More than likely. The SA80 isn’t all bad though, it is far more accurate and has longer range than a C8.

But the C8 has some awesome pros though. Being a lot lighter, less complex and ambidextrous.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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I suspect the use of the wierd white ensign design is part of the Navy's current drive to matelot-ise the RM. The new badges are a bit of a shame as the rest of the new kit actually looks pretty good. Much more like the SF Crye kit than that used by the Army.
Yep! Funny that! They resent us until they need us as a recruiting tool or an asset for funding!

That ensign looks like a dogs abortion. I would love a Flash Mutiny where lads just keep cracking the green ones.


The trousers are decent but I’m not a fan of the Crye Shirts, I’d rather wear the old DPM cut shirts in MTP.
 

Rob20

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My view. Yep flashes look Websters but, you can't have it all. The army and other branches will be very envious of us in a year or two cutting about in crye, gucci helmets and C8s so I think overall the changes are really good and it's showing that FCF potentially is starting to make progress. Exciting time to be in the Corps in my opinion.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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My view. Yep flashes look Websters but, you can't have it all. The army and other branches will be very envious of us in a year or two cutting about in crye, gucci helmets and C8s so I think overall the changes are really good and it's showing that FCF potentially is starting to make progress. Exciting time to be in the Corps in my opinion.

Disagree mate, if everyone thinks the new flashes are gash then go back. There was never anything brought up about them being changed, so why even attempt it?

Keep the flashes and dagger,
 

Rob20

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Disagree mate, if everyone thinks the new flashes are gash then go back. There was never anything brought up about them being changed, so why even attempt it?

Keep the flashes and dagger,
I agree with you. But in grand scheme of things, in terms of recruitment etc imagine the difference it will make to a young lad looking at both royal (gucci futuristic rig) and the bog standard army still in their PCS shite. I think just the different appearance itself will make a big factor and the lads will love the "ally factor".

I do agree about the flashes but.... Do we want to move on or stay the same. Hopefully early feedback will solve the issue and we can adopt the new rig with good old pussers flashes!
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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I agree with you. But in grand scheme of things, in terms of recruitment etc imagine the difference it will make to a young lad looking at both royal (gucci futuristic rig) and the bog standard army still in their PCS shite. I think just the different appearance itself will make a big factor and the lads will love the "ally factor".

I do agree about the flashes but.... Do we want to move on or stay the same. Hopefully early feedback will solve the issue and we can adopt the new rig with good old pussers flashes!
Yea Definately the best situation would be New rig, green flashes and dagger.
 
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dodgyknees

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The trousers are decent but I’m not a fan of the Crye Shirts, I’d rather wear the old DPM cut shirts in MTP.
Agree about the shirts. As a rule I hate Velcro on uniform; the most annoying sound on ops in the last decade has been the constant ripping of Velcro as various layers are taken off.

There needs to be a difference between op kit and barracks kit. In barracks, CS95 style shirts are by far the most comfortable but would rather wear the new kit when deployed.

Who knows, you could even have a choice. In the Army we are now allowed to decide for ourselves whether or not to roll up our sleeves!
 

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Wonder if this 'bright idea' came from the same chap that started the ball rolling with the RM commissioned ranks being changed to RN ranks.

I suspect so.

The problem with the Bright Ideas Club is they implement change without explanation, consultation or consideration at great expense on the one hand, then claim to be saving money by changes in different areas which simply transfer the financial burden from one pint pot to another for want of a KCB...neglecting the impact or indeed that the cost overall comes from the same barrel.

Re-branding is costly, morale-sapping and invariably leads to premature departures from high office. On the other hand, it provides a visually apparent change which is attributed the individual wishing to be recognised for implementing radical change for the greater benefit.
 
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dodgyknees

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My children's headmaster once said to me the best bit of advice he got was 'whatever you do, do not change the uniform. It will lead to years of heartache'. Got to agree with him, getting tired of all the tinkering.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Wonder if this 'bright idea' came from the same chap that started the ball rolling with the RM commissioned ranks being changed to RN ranks.

I suspect so.

The problem with the Bright Ideas Club is they implement change without consultation or consideration at great expense on the one hand, then claim to be saving money by changes in different areas which simply transfer the financial burden from one pint pot to another for want of a KCB...neglecting the impact or indeed that the cost overall comes from the same barrel.

Re-branding is costly, morale-sapping and invariably leads to premature departures from high office. On the other hand, it provides a visually apparent change which is attributed the individual wishing to be recognised for implementing radical change.
Probably the same person who thought it was a great idea to sell the rights to the flashes and dagger (which they now want to bin off?!) to the shop Next. For some bright idea, then when the corps got a sad on and dripped, the CGRM had to get involved and tell lads to stop dripping on social media, because it was such a failure of an idea.
 

SCOTTY6

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Just on the topic of this makeover. Are C8s being rolled out to all Cdo units now?

I recall reading that C8s handle frangible rounds better. Apparently for ship operations the use of 5.56 frangible is to minimise the ricochet risk. Apparently the SA80 family doesn't like frangible rounds.
They use C8s up at 43, and yeah they take limited penetration reduced ricochet, for ball ammo they also take a different round, L15 for the C8s and L17 for the old ghetto blasters, something to do with the amount of cordite used in the rounds. but not sure about them being issued to the rest of the units. If it is itl be going to Acoy at 40 as they are the future commando force guinea pigs. Speaking to some lads from training wings, there was a bit of debate on the new rifles, initially they wanted the HK 416, but apparently HK already has contracts with several other militaries and can’t keep up with demand. They were also considering the sig sauer MCX and looking at the new C8. Another rumour I hear was that A coy might be getting pooles old C8s as the new ones come in. But who knows.
 
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I get the impression that, in some quarters, that the RN does not understand the RM, and would happily starve the corps of funds, especially if in need for an extra frigate or two. It is like two separate forces within the Navy working for a common employer. You won’t help the Corps feel apart of the naval family by messing with something as important as tradition and insignia.
Due to this bright idea of turning the corps into essentially a tier 2 SF unit could end in tears. It’s never good to be ally for ally’s sake. It won’t be long until the MOD struggle to reason why they need nearly 7000 marines.
 

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They use C8s up at 43, and yeah they take limited penetration reduced ricochet, for ball ammo they also take a different round, L15 for the C8s and L17 for the old ghetto blasters, something to do with the amount of cordite used in the rounds. but not sure about them being issued to the rest of the units. If it is itl be going to Acoy at 40 as they are the future commando force guinea pigs. Speaking to some lads from training wings, there was a bit of debate on the new rifles, initially they wanted the HK 416, but apparently HK already has contracts with several other militaries and can’t keep up with demand. They were also considering the sig sauer MCX and looking at the new C8. Another rumour I hear was that A coy might be getting pooles old C8s as the new ones come in. But who knows.
Police ARV operators right up to CTSFO use the MCX and most of the feedback around it is really positive. ARV’s also have a HK416 in each mobile armoury as a longer range contingency and again the majority of feedback around it is really positive.
 

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+1 for the MCX, as it can be switched between sub sonic / super sonic, 5.56, 7.62 and .300 blackout in a variety of barrel lengths. Its like the old Steyr AUG; one weapon, multiple roles. Not the mention the fact that it weighs basically sod all, I bloody loved using it.
 

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I get the impression that, in some quarters, that the RN does not understand the RM, and would happily starve the corps of funds, especially if in need for an extra frigate or two. It is like two separate forces within the Navy working for a common employer. You won’t help the Corps feel apart of the naval family by messing with something as important as tradition and insignia.
Due to this bright idea of turning the corps into essentially a tier 2 SF unit could end in tears. It’s never good to be ally for ally’s sake. It won’t be long until the MOD struggle to reason why they need nearly 7000 marines.
My guess is the visual changes of the Corps are genuinely intended to preserve the uniqueness of the Royal Marines and disambiguate the fact the jewel in the Royal Navy's crown, as implicated in the word 'marine', are a indisposable maritime asset that doesn't belong to the Army.

The Army would dearly love to take-over 'ownership' of the Corps, much the same as the UKSF branding which brought the SBS under the one strategic command...although they still wear the uniform of the Royal Marines and are regarded as such. Just.

There are many in the Corps who believe they should be a stand-alone force and are, perhaps understandably, threaders with the manner in which the RN clumsily tries to do what they believe to be the right thing to maintain the status quo.

Much as I can genuinely understand the frustration within the Corps, I really do think their 'uniqueness' would be lost forever if they were absorbed under Army command.

It's a case of being careful what you wish for, I guess.
 
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dodgyknees

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The Army would dearly love to take-over 'ownership' of the Corps
Not sure this is strictly true. Defence would save millions by putting the RM under the Army by measures such as - close CTC, remove HQ 3 Cdo Bde (do you need a Bde HQ for their new Role), get rid of a whole seam of RM staff officers who are only in Navy HQ and similar because the RN don't understand land environment operations, CLM and staff courses could merge, I could go on.

The Army tend to get a bit of bad rep about a take over bid for Royal, but I think the threat comes from the Centre rather than the Army. I think @Major_Disaster is spot on with his comments above.
 

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The Army tend to get a bit of bad rep about a take over bid for Royal, but I think the threat comes from the Centre rather than the Army.
Agreed. Whenever a defence review is mooted, it is very often the case that the future of the Corps is raised.

In their frustration with the way they are managed, many in the Corps imagine they would be better-off under Army command. The Navy, for their part, use that prospect as a dire warning and state the Army "wants" the Royal Marines. The Army, on the other hand, take the pragmatic approach that it would be cheaper all round.

Whether the Army actually wishes to take command of the Royal Marines isn't always as clear as portrayed by the Navy but from a political perspective, if it looks like a soldier, fights on land like a soldier and has a healthy distrust of the Navy....it's probably a soldier. :)
 

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As an aside, for those what like a bit of military 'istory.

The Royal Green Jackets (now changed - when they became The Rifles) cap badge contained the Battle Honour 'Copenhagen' and underneath it, the Naval Crown.

When they were the Rifle Corps they conducted an amphibious raid in the preceding year in Spain & were employed as sharp-shooters in the rigging in Royal Navy warships at the Battle of Copenhagen.

Eventually they were taken into the line regiments of the British Army and their connection with "amphibiosity" severed.

And that, ladies and gents, is 'istory. :)

IMG_20191206_110716.jpg
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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My guess is the visual changes of the Corps are genuinely intended to preserve the uniqueness of the Royal Marines and disambiguate the fact the jewel in the Royal Navy's crown, as implicated in the word 'marine', are a indisposable maritime asset that doesn't belong to the Army.

The Army would dearly love to take-over 'ownership' of the Corps, much the same as the UKSF branding which brought the SBS under the one strategic command...although they still wear the uniform of the Royal Marines and are regarded as such. Just.

There are many in the Corps who believe they should be a stand-alone force and are, perhaps understandably, threaders with the manner in which the RN clumsily tries to do what they believe to be the right thing to maintain the status quo.

Much as I can genuinely understand the frustration within the Corps, I really do think their 'uniqueness' would be lost forever if they were absorbed under Army command.

It's a case of being careful what you wish for, I guess.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the naval heritage, and I like it being different to the Army, but it always seems to be the navy coming up with this stuff, would be nice to see the corps take it to the lads at the pointy end.
 
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