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Ninja_Stoker

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Don’t get me wrong, I like the naval heritage, and I like it being different to the Army, but it always seems to be the navy coming up with this stuff, would be nice to see the corps take it to the lads at the pointy end.
I'm with you on that. The good news is the Corps does actually have representation in the higher echelons - in fact only the other day I had the an informal brief with an RM Major General who's definitely in the right place.

On a slight tangent - I really don't get the logic of a Lieutenant General being senior to a Major General. Wonder if they'll ever switch that around? :D
 

Chelonian

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Resurrecting this thread because @Caversham and I recently spoke about the topic of Denison smocks.
For those too young to actually remember, these smocks were almost exclusively worn by Royal Marines and by Airborne Forces up until the late-1970s when, after considerable resistance, DPM was finally the universally worn rig.

Denison smocks were very distinctive and definitely marked out the wearer as being different from other service personnel. The tightly-woven cotton fabric was considerably more windproof than the DPM pattern which spawned CS95 which will be familiar to some. Generally the Denison was worn with plain OG trousers rather than with DPM trousers. The development and camouflage print of the various patterns of Denison is perhaps a niche interest.

1945_Pattern.jpg

A 1945 pattern Denison with half-zip. Apparently still worn by some in the 1960s. :eek:

1959_Pattern_1968.jpg

A rare 1968 camouflage print on a 1959 pattern Denison.

1972_Pattern.jpg

The final 1972 pattern Denison in service until the late-1970s.

As can be seen in this image below from the early 1970s 'uniformity' was a rather vague concept:

664_Para_Sqn_AAC_NI_Dec_1973_to_Apr_1974.jpg

Images pinched from Paradata.
 

Caversham

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What @Chelonian didn't say was that I "proffed" one of the top ones shown, which are apparently as rare as hen's teeth and worth around £500 on eBay. I stupidly sold mine at a car boot sale in Exeter around 10 years ago for a fiver.:(

Alan
 

Chelonian

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Unsurprisingly there are plenty of bogus 'opportunities' on eBay. -banghead-

Screenshot 2020-02-23 at 12.49.36.png
 

CallMeLucifer

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Agreed. Whenever a defence review is mooted, it is very often the case that the future of the Corps is raised.

In their frustration with the way they are managed, many in the Corps imagine they would be better-off under Army command. The Navy, for their part, use that prospect as a dire warning and state the Army "wants" the Royal Marines. The Army, on the other hand, take the pragmatic approach that it would be cheaper all round.

Whether the Army actually wishes to take command of the Royal Marines isn't always as clear as portrayed by the Navy but from a political perspective, if it looks like a soldier, fights on land like a soldier and has a healthy distrust of the Navy....it's probably a soldier. :)

If the RM were swallowed by the Army, do you think they and the Paras would be merged into a single unit? Also, the Frog Troupes de marine seem to be pretty ok under Army command.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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If the RM were swallowed by the Army, do you think they and the Paras would be merged into a single unit? Also, the Frog Troupes de marine seem to be pretty ok under Army command.
Post WW2, the Army Commando Units were disbanded,except the Paras, who I think originated as 2 Commando. Commando elements of the Royal Artillery & the Royal Engineers, obviously still exist.

In the post-war years, as the Army down-sized, many units merged or were disbanded. Whether they have the desire to take on an Infantry Brigade of specialists is an unknown. 30 Cdo would probably be absorbed within the Intelligence Corps & CLR into the RLC, likewise 47 into RLC Port & Maritime.

43? Who knows?

All supposition, of course.
 

Chelonian

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...likewise 47 into RLC Port & Maritime.
Once attended a cocktail party in Dartmouth (no, I didn't wear my LBD) aboard what was then a visiting Royal Corps of Transport ship lying alongside the embankment. Amusingly, another guest—a retired RAF Officer—was immersed in a detailed and rather tactless discussion with the ship's Army Officer CO about how he might better have manoeuvred the ship alongside when he arrived in the port. :)
 

Wings

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If the RM were swallowed by the Army, do you think they and the Paras would be merged into a single unit? Also, the Frog Troupes de marine seem to be pretty ok under Army command.
I wouldnt think itd be a good idea with funding either. It takes a bit of time to perfect that role and if you had two to perfect I think both wouldnt be as good as they are.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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If the RM were swallowed by the Army, do you think they and the Paras would be merged into a single unit? Also, the Frog Troupes de marine seem to be pretty ok under Army command.
The French military have a lot of stupid ideas. The only French units worth listening to are the French Foreign Legion. Thank god we won’t have to be involved in the dogs abortion that will be the EU army.

The paras are arguably obsolete having not jumped into battle since WW2. Whenever we did lead commando exercises we were credited with being able to complete the whole thing realistically from ship to shore and onwards. Where as the army would rock up in a bus and claim “we jumped in”.

I’ve worked with paras and they are good soldiers and good st what they do but it’sa different role to the Corps and can’t really be compared or merged. Neither the paras or the bootnecks will be happy with it.
 

Chelonian

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The paras are arguably obsolete having not jumped into battle since WW2.
[Coughs politely...] Op Musketeer, Suez, 1956. :)

The Parachute Regiment Red Devils' display drop adjacent to Divis Flats during Op Banner doesn't count. That was all about 'hearts and minds'.
 

Apex

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I have an original 68 pattern Para smock in my garage, boxed away. More than happy to sell if it means I can get some winter sun. Pete
 

Wings

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I have an original 68 pattern Para smock in my garage, boxed away. More than happy to sell if it means I can get some winter sun. Pete
How much
 

Caversham

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I'm sure Royal could match that with a couple of verses of Nelly the Cripple, or Eskimo Nell!

Alan
 

Apex

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Won’t take a penny, if you are serving Royal or Airborne it’s yours. No use to me and only sitting in a box. It’s 180/88, one tear on left elbow. Generally scuffed. In oxford area.
Pete
 

ave!

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Those Denison smocks look the bees knees them. Did you have to wax them to make them waterproof? @Caversham
 

Caversham

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Those Denison smocks look the bees knees them. Did you have to wax them to make them waterproof? @Caversham
No waxing, they were windproof to a degree, but definitely not waterproof! I was only issued mine in 40 Cdo prior to a tour over the water, but it had to be handed back on our return. I had also proffed one by dubious means in RT, which considering only the TT had them was no mean feat and then one when I went on my Para Course.

Alan
 
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