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New here, trained rank.

Discussion in 'Introductions & Welcome to the Royal Marines Site' started by Jack of no trades, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    Very selective editing on my part, but back to the blue lid Marines and commando trained green lid Marines?

    Alan
     
  2. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

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    You could go down that route, but I wonder if the cost/infrastructure required would/could cause snags. I'd say just utilise army and navy ranks in the PIDs that don't need commandos. I also think that with FCF coming in, many SQs will become adquals.

    If we look at SFOD-A from the US, their team all have a role, similar to a scaled down troop essentially. so everyone can scrap and is SF qualled, but one guys is the comms, one guy is the vehicle dude, one guys is the "TQ", etc etc. meaning they all get to be fighters, but with other responsibilities.

    I can see FCF utilising similarities to SFOD-A.

    In ref to my post that you quoted. Certain SQs have taken a Grav and imbued some nerd into him, he can scrap and soldier really well, and Bootnecks have the capacity to use effective intelligence very well, so he excels at the technical side of his job, whereas you take his army counterpart, he may have some good technical nous, but stick him in an OP to use his kit and he breaks like a soggy kitkat because he doesn't have a good foundation as a commando/fighter.
     
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  3. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I don't see any infrastructure costs. If everyone joined as a blue lid recruit, as now and completed their first 26 weeks covering all their Foundation and infantry training and at the end passed out. They then went on to train in whatever SQ they wanted to do, including Commando, who if they successfully passed out, are awarded the green beret.

    The ones that wanted the REMF's jobs could train in those SQs with a return of service and if they chose to could select to become Commando trained, all very similar to the All Arms.

    The big problem that there is with the current system, apart from pinging guys into unpopular SQs is that the last chance that they can opt out is towards the end of the CC. If they choose not to, but fail the Commando Course, what happens to them now? For them, there is no Plan B, whereby if there was an option of staying in, but as a blue lid, then they may well choose that.

    As I say, Devils Advocate here, based on what used to happen and what does happen with the All Arms.

    Alan
     
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  4. 06061944

    06061944 Royal Marines Commando

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    The points being raised are valid but you can't just blanket label anyone who complains as a malcontent who didn't work towards an SQ or promotion. Firsthand, I've seen a very large portion of my current troop get pinged.

    If you join up to be a RMC and end up being a driver despite your best efforts. You have every right to drip. It doesn't mean you're looking for cuddles. The Corps wants confident men, who speak their mind. Everyone who complains can't just be a lazy git who's throwing he's toys out of the pram.

    Of course there is a great appetite to get non commando army / navy to fill DSS roles. But the Navy can barely man their ships and the army is losing personnel by the thousands. They're not going to give us manpower, to their detriment, so we can go play soldiers.

    I understand a degree of patience is required for the future. The military cant just cater to everyone but the Corps at the moment is a pingzone.

    Again FCF is a great idea but talk and promises of making us into some SOF unit in the distant future isn't going to magically convince lads in the present.

    I'm not trying to come across as combative. Maybe im just a bit tender, my summer leave is rapidly coming to an end and perhaps I could do with a cuddle☺
     
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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  5. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    This is pretty much how the USMC has operated OR training for over fifty years. Twelve weeks Boot Camp (basically twelve weeks of Foundation) and then off to specialist training be it infantry, dentistry, SEAL, vehicle mechanic, etc. Those assessed unsuitable for their chosen specialism during Boot Camp are counselled to find a more appropriate one in the Corps. The USMC also actively promotes the notion that everyone is a Marine first and foremost, regardless of specialisation.
    The most obvious difference is of course that of scale as the USMC is a truly mahoosive organisation.
     
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  6. Rover

    Rover Moderator

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    Hugs.jpeg :cool:
     
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  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Another take on it is Commando training is probably amongst the longest, most arduous, wasteful and expensive infantry training courses there is.

    Those who successfully complete it, understandably want to do the job they trained for. But, the bottom line is, we cannot currently simultaneously employ 7000 Commandos in the GD role.

    Commando trained Storemen, Clerks & Drivers are hellishly expensive when you consider we lose about 50% overall in recruit training. The RN loses about 5-10% of their equivalents by comparison.

    Why not then, give those failing RM Recruit Training, beyond a set stage, the opportunity to become a blue beret Royal Marine in a nominated SQ rather than lose them to other services?

    The stark alternative is that sooner or later someone is going to ask why we need 7000 Commandos if they are not employed in the role for which they were trained.

    And before anyone thinks otherwise, we already have blue beret Royal Marines trained ranks...
     
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  8. PPLLOOFF

    PPLLOOFF Member

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    Great to have this kind of discussion here, with fresh opinions. For every poster here there must be hundreds of lurkers soaking it in.

    Is there a specific resource I should get clued up on during RT to be pro-active and guide my own career?

    I'm familiar with the concept of the JPA system from the last DSS thread. What is the SRC (brag book) referred to, is it where you add your "extra" quals and skills attained before joining the core e.g. if I want ML, I would put my skiing and climbing experience?

    Any other advice specifically for a new recruit in taking charge of their career?

    Cheers
     
  9. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

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    I've been in informal but organised open forum drip sessions, where not a single lad has constructively dripped.....just the standard "this is *text deleted*, that is *text deleted*" moaning.

    Lads complain about being pinged....how many of your troop actively sought out an SQ they wanted to do? or did they just go "nah, I'll ride the wave"?! there are loads of SQs and Adquals, drafts, etc etc, that are proper commando work. on that note, I've also been in drip sessions where lads moan about not being commandos, and ROs course comes up..."nah I'm not doing that..its honking".
     
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  10. Jack of no trades

    Jack of no trades Royal Marines Commando

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    Your JPA front page is the port of call, basically its the first thing that someone will see when you apply for an SQ, go to promotion board etc, if you don't bother....they won't (shows your actively managing you aspiration), basically, it's your personal objectives (do at least 6 of the 8, I always do all 8 though), your career aspirations, your unit and region preferences, etc.

    there are career fairs sometimes, go to them, and each unit now has a career advisor, they can gen you up of the SQs and the route to go, who to speak to etc.

    Be aware that some SQs are small, have long training times and long queues waiting to join, you can mitigate this by "pinging yourself", lads see this as a game they shouldn't have to play, but the Corps is numbers, and a fighting group, they need to fill shortage SQs, to that end, you scratch their back and they'll scratch yours. For example, you *text deleted* be a sniper...."ping" yourself for sigs, do well on the course and then get into recce troop/SRS, work with the MLs and Snipers and learn from them, this will also give you DSS rights and you can jump to the front of the waiting list for the Sniper aquaint, etc. (you'd put this plan in on your JPA front page so its planned out)

    The SRC/Brag sheet is basically a little paper booklet that you can put in any civi quals, anything you've done over the last year, with a little explination, etc etc, so when it comes to Report writing time, you have much evidence to how the boss and get a good write up!
     
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  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    I'll throw something else into the mix.
    Someone on here might be able to clarify whether the phrase 'military service' is appropriately emphasised to aspiring Recruits during the application process. My Spidey senses suggest that it probably is but is perhaps quickly forgotten by the applicant in the same way that a briefing about pensions is disregarded as being irrelevant.

    One particular issue crops up from time-to-time. Often it's best expressed on the forum by someone considering Officer entry but who seeks reassurance that they will 'still be leading from the front at the age of thirty rather than bogged down with admin work'.
    The simple answer is of course to pose the question as to why the service would indulge and prioritise an individual's career wishes over the requirements of the service.

    The notion of 'This isn't what I signed up for' probably pre-dates the Battle of Agincourt in 1415 but as alluded to by others, young people are less deferential and are more aware of their rights in 2019 which is a good thing as long as liabilities are also clearly understood.
     
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  12. 06061944

    06061944 Royal Marines Commando

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    You're not wrong. Some ride the wave and crash on the rocks. But a lot of these lads weren't going for AE or PW3 sniper. It was SQs with relatively short waiting lists like anti tanks etc....

    As marines, 50% of everything we say is a drip anyway.

    I've no doubt, no two troops or company are the same and some lads are more proactive than others. If lads don't put themselves forward absolutely they're own fault. But the uncertainty that hangs over every GD marine about his next draft isnt good for morale or the soul☺.

    Not every complaint is unjustified, and stemming from lads own idleness.

    The original point stands all the talk of FCF is no comfort to lads immediate future.
     
  13. Illustrious

    Illustrious Royal Marines Commando - Moderator

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    Given that the average length of service is 6 years at last checking, @06061944 is right as FCF being no comfort. 50% of lads joining in the last year will have already left before seeing FCF.
     
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  14. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    History and reality suggests that FCF will have been binned and replaced by a new three letter acronym well before it is implemented.
     
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  15. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    The prestige of the RM blue beret 'brand' is definitely a resource worth tapping into. Anyone who doubts it should consider Op Frankton.
     
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  16. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    And all RM VC awards, bar one...I think. Corporal Hunter.
     
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  17. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Can’t argue with that, I agree.
     
  18. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Well, I wouldn’t agree it works brilliantly. But yes there is an element of the non “Gucci” jobs need filled. (Ironically the Dutch marines love Sigs and it’s a popular branch from what one lad told me).

    However, no one joins the corps to be a chef, or a clerk or a storeman.
    If the navy is so happy to limit the MA role for bootneck, and always throw (mostly female) medics into the mix, why can’t we accept the navy doing more of the non Gucci stuff, clerks etc.

    Or is there other ways to create incentive for DSS roles?
    Lads wouldn’t be reluctant to DSS if there was more transparency and more garuntees with it.

    And what was wrong with the old model of GD branch and then specialising?
     
  19. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    That’s anecdotal. I know lads who had their JPA uptodate, were proactive and good lads, and they still got seen off, and it wasn’t even a year after training. That’s another big Lie. Lads were getting pinged at the 8/9 month mark.

    I would say over half of my original troop ended up pinged.
     
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  20. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Bingo! And all the officers that come up with it will have gotten a payrise, extra caviar rations in the Mess, and of course would all have shares in the company employed by the MOD, who just happened to be recommended by them....
     
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