Officer Recruiting Test score: Is it justified?

JBloor

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Alright guys, I'm a Navy Officer applicant and have just come across this forum. I passed my AIB a couple of months ago and I just wanted to let any potential RM Officers know that the psychometric test you take during AIB are a COMPLETELY different/format to those taken during the initial RT. On AIB they are the same as any other psychometric test for a graduate scheme which, if you've been to/are at uni, your university careers office has many exams of and will probably do mock tests.

I've read a few of the previous comments on this thread regarding the recent increase in the pass mark of the RT, the justification for which some have stated is because the psychometric tests at AIB are harder so if you can't pass the RT at 80% you won't pass the AIB test. If this was correct then none of the candidates who sat their AIB before the increase RT pass mark would have pass AIB ? which they did. There were a few guys on my AIB who pass the RT to the old pass mark (including me) and passed AIB, in fact many of us agreed that we would never have made it to AIB if we had to pass the RT to around the 80% pass mark in all four sections. As I?ve already said the type of test sat at AIB are different, indeed there is no mechanical comprehension section. Of course the RT pass mark needs to be set so that it selects people who are able to do the job well. But the previous pass mark (around 66% I think) was used for many years and there are Officers in both the RN and RM today who achieved that mark on their RT and are now having prosperous careers.

On the surface it might seem simple ? increase the pass mark which will leave only the best potential officers to go onto AIB. But this is a pretty unintelligent assumption to make. Think about what makes a good officer. The pass mark of the RT needs to be set to ensure candidates are capable of give AIB a good attempt from an intellectual perspective which I can obviously assume was at the 66% pass mark since that is what I got on the RT (along with many others before me) and passed AIB. If there are too many people apply be more rigorous with examining traits which are arguably (obviously) more important once it?s been ascertained that someone has the necessary numerical/verbal etc. skills, i.e. leadership potential, life experience, maturity...

It all comes down to this...
There are an increasing number of people apply and there will be a decreasing future navy manpower. Increasing the RT pass is a simple, easy and cheap way to get rid of people. But ask yourself, is it the best? In my opinion, definitely not and I am disappointed that an organisation I am about to join thinks it is. I sincerely hope that they lower it and decide on a better way to select the best officers of the future.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Thread split from Recruiting Test examples/advice.

Welcome.

Well done passing AIB, hope you've been assured selection & an early entry date due to a high scoring pass, without the need to worry about a re-take or revisiting elements of selection.

Hopefully most officer candidates are aware the recruiting test is only a preliminary level & the tests at AIB are more involved - but don't have a pass/fail score.

Whether anyone agrees with the initial Recruiting Test score for Officer doesn't really alter the fact it's the standard applied & since its initial introduction AIB fails have reduced, in fact they've reduced still further since the scores were further increased last year.

It is under constant review & should the scores need adjusting, or officer candidates again be exempt the same test as everyone else, then AIB will call the shots as they are the employer.

The initial recruiting test was introduced for ratings in 1943, but only introduced for Officer candidates within the last 5 years & merely acts as an initial coarse filter. The scores vary in each section but range between 60% and 76% for Officer. Rocket science it isn't, but every month we witness graduates fail the test for any available ratings branch (less than 33% correct in literacy or numeracy), let alone reach the score required for Officer.
 

JBloor

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And how many high calibre candidates who would have previously gone onto passed AIB and been an asset to the RN but were turned away at the initial RT phase as a result of this change? Of course you don?t know the figure because the RN didn?t want to spend the extra cash having more people attend AIB and having a thorough look at their potential.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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And how many high calibre candidates who would have previously gone onto passed AIB and been an asset to the RN but were turned away at the initial RT phase as a result of this change? Of course you don?t know the figure because the RN didn't want to spend the extra cash having more people attend AIB and having a thorough look at their potential.
It is unusual for someone who has successfully passed AIB to feel compelled to request justification of the selection filters - something determined way above my payscale incidentally. Maybe it's worth having a chat with your ACLO to discuss the relative merits of the Navy's recruiting policy & how best to improve it. Feedback forms are distributed after the Recruiting Test for this purpose.

So far as we're concerned, the recruiting test scores are set at the lowest level to ensure the maximum cross section of eligible applicants. Careers Advisers apply the rules rather than determine policy or parameters. Whether we agree with them doesn't make any difference.

Logically the Recruiting Test is statistically better than the age-old Army tradition of selling commissions to those that have the means regardless of their evident ability - much the same as the tri-service University Officer Cadet schemes wrongly presume an undergraduate is destined to become an Officer & afforded commissioned status without meaningful selection.

It is both financially & statistically demonstrable that there is a direct correlation between recruiting test scores and those who not only pass selection, but successfully complete training, as determined by Qinetiq using seven decades of recruiting test statistics.

Many pass AIB but aren't selected - however that's less the case now that Officer candidates have to pass the same initial basic recruiting test as everyone else. Comms Techs (Ratings) require the highest all-up score, no-one has so far complained that it should be lowered.

The observations & assumptions appear rather at odds with those that make the grade, pass AIB, are subsequently selected & successfully complete training. Doubtless we lose some with excellent leadership potential who also fail the Medical Examination, the Sift Interview, AIB, Security Clearance or simply fail Officer Training. The upshot is we hope we take those not only best suited, but also with the best chance of success.

You are 100% correct - it is all to do with money.
 

iceman78090

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Alright guys, I'm a Navy Officer applicant and have just come across this forum. I passed my AIB a couple of months ago and I just wanted to let any potential RM Officers know that the psychometric test you take during AIB are a COMPLETELY different/format to those taken during the initial RT. On AIB they are the same as any other psychometric test for a graduate scheme which, if you've been to/are at uni, your university careers office has many exams of and will probably do mock tests.

I've read a few of the previous comments on this thread regarding the recent increase in the pass mark of the RT, the justification for which some have stated is because the psychometric tests at AIB are harder so if you can't pass the RT at 80% you won't pass the AIB test. If this was correct then none of the candidates who sat their AIB before the increase RT pass mark would have pass AIB ? which they did. There were a few guys on my AIB who pass the RT to the old pass mark (including me) and passed AIB, in fact many of us agreed that we would never have made it to AIB if we had to pass the RT to around the 80% pass mark in all four sections. As I?ve already said the type of test sat at AIB are different, indeed there is no mechanical comprehension section. Of course the RT pass mark needs to be set so that it selects people who are able to do the job well. But the previous pass mark (around 66% I think) was used for many years and there are Officers in both the RN and RM today who achieved that mark on their RT and are now having prosperous careers.

On the surface it might seem simple ? increase the pass mark which will leave only the best potential officers to go onto AIB. But this is a pretty unintelligent assumption to make. Think about what makes a good officer. The pass mark of the RT needs to be set to ensure candidates are capable of give AIB a good attempt from an intellectual perspective which I can obviously assume was at the 66% pass mark since that is what I got on the RT (along with many others before me) and passed AIB. If there are too many people apply be more rigorous with examining traits which are arguably (obviously) more important once it?s been ascertained that someone has the necessary numerical/verbal etc. skills, i.e. leadership potential, life experience, maturity...

It all comes down to this...
There are an increasing number of people apply and there will be a decreasing future navy manpower. Increasing the RT pass is a simple, easy and cheap way to get rid of people. But ask yourself, is it the best? In my opinion, definitely not and I am disappointed that an organisation I am about to join thinks it is. I sincerely hope that they lower it and decide on a better way to select the best officers of the future.
i liiterally could not agree more with what you have said.
 

iceman78090

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i feel the worst part of the RT test is that it benefits people considerbly more that are of a younger age and have just left school with algebra and other types of numerousy fresh in their heads. along with literaccy. it is very GCSE style questions, and people like me who have been out of the school style way of learning for a long time struggled drammaticly.

i have more than enough intelligence to become an officer but as i am programmed now to university style knowledge not to GCSE style maths and english i am struggling to pass this phase, and believe me you complete forget how to do this after a while and its quite difficult to pick it back up without having the luxuary of a teacher.
 

DhobiWanKenobi

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i feel the worst part of the RT test is that it benefits people considerbly more that are of a younger age and have just left school with algebra and other types of numerousy fresh in their heads. along with literaccy. it is very GCSE style questions, and people like me who have been out of the school style way of learning for a long time struggled drammaticly.

i have more than enough intelligence to become an officer but as i am programmed now to university style knowledge not to GCSE style maths and english i am struggling to pass this phase, and believe me you complete forget how to do this after a while and its quite difficult to pick it back up without having the luxuary of a teacher.
Whilst I agree that those fresh from GCSEs may find the RT a little easier since they are in the correct frame of mind, passing RT is no more difficult (especially for those with more intelligence than is required to become an Officer) than getting hold of some GCSE books and spending a hour every day going over basic maths and english, as well as practising the many free psychometric tests that are available.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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i feel the worst part of the RT test is that it benefits people considerbly more that are of a younger age and have just left school with algebra and other types of numerousy fresh in their heads. along with literaccy. it is very GCSE style questions, and people like me who have been out of the school style way of learning for a long time struggled drammaticly.

i have more than enough intelligence to become an officer but as i am programmed now to university style knowledge not to GCSE style maths and english i am struggling to pass this phase, and believe me you complete forget how to do this after a while and its quite difficult to pick it back up without having the luxuary of a teacher.
The reason behind the Recruiting Test should be apparent.

During AIB literacy skills will be further assessed, as will your mental arithmetic skills. It may well be worth reading all the posts on this thread with a critical eye.

Those unable to meet the basic standard of the initial Recruiting Test need to be fluent in basic skills in order to be effective leaders. Over the years this has become increasingly apparent at AIB, hence the introduction of the Recruiting Test for Officers.

Everything RM Officers need to achieve is usually harder, longer, faster so it would again be at odds to suggest we lower the standard for as long as we are over-subscribed.
 

iceman78090

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Whilst I agree that those fresh from GCSEs may find the RT a little easier since they are in the correct frame of mind, passing RT is no more difficult (especially for those with more intelligence than is required to become an Officer) than getting hold of some GCSE books and spending a hour every day going over basic maths and english, as well as practising the many free psychometric tests that are available.
i have now purchased many practice test booklets from the royal navy to better my chances a second time round (first time i just went through the practice test boooklet which i found very easy) but if the slightest thing goes round in my second attempt, i will no longer be able to apply for a royal marines officer which i think is rediculous at this stage as i am fit, strong, born leader and a switched on guy. i just think they are going to be loosing alot of men that are more than adequite enough to fore fill a prosperous carear as an officer in th RM/RN.
 

iceman78090

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hopefully i will not be one of these men, as i will study the books untill i am confident at getting 100%!
 

Ninja_Stoker

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i have now purchased many practice test booklets from the royal navy to better my chances a second time round (first time i just went through the practice test boooklet which i found very easy) but if the slightest thing goes round in my second attempt, i will no longer be able to apply for a royal marines officer which i think is rediculous at this stage as i am fit, strong, born leader and a switched on guy. i just think they are going to be loosing alot of men that are more than adequite enough to fore fill a prosperous carear as an officer in th RM/RN.
We lose a lot of candidates through poor basic literacy and numeracy skills, which are the fundamental skills required for effective leadership. It is surprising how many think they are good enough to be an officer but fail the test for Other Rank too.

The Royal Navy does not sell practice test books incidentally, all advice is free.
 

VTomasi

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And how many high calibre candidates who would have previously gone onto passed AIB and been an asset to the RN but were turned away at the initial RT phase as a result of this change? Of course you don?t know the figure because the RN didn?t want to spend the extra cash having more people attend AIB and having a thorough look at their potential.
Firstly, as Ninja stated, you passed - why gripe?

Secondly, the AIB is still inundated with excellent candidates, so much so that many are turned away, despite having passed AIB.

To put it another way, if they have have a large number of good candidates who are ABLE to pass the RT, why would they be worried about those who do not?

It's all about meeting a standard. It's pretty black and white - you pass - you're good enough at that particular stage. You don't pass, you evidently don't have the aptitude to meet that standard, regardless of whether you're a top bloke who has climbed Everest. They are looking for rounded candidates (who can do a bit of simple maths, english and mech. comp.).
 

TheGeek

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i feel the worst part of the RT test is that it benefits people considerbly more that are of a younger age and have just left school with algebra and other types of numerousy fresh in their heads. along with literaccy. it is very GCSE style questions, and people like me who have been out of the school style way of learning for a long time struggled drammaticly.

i have more than enough intelligence to become an officer but as i am programmed now to university style knowledge not to GCSE style maths and english i am struggling to pass this phase, and believe me you complete forget how to do this after a while and its quite difficult to pick it back up without having the luxuary of a teacher.
I totally disagree with this, I have been out of school for 13 years and out of uni for a couple of years and I passed, with according to my CA a score making me capable of officer application, with nothing more than a little proper application of time and effort.

And yes it may be down to money, but savings have to be made somewhere.

Geek
 

DhobiWanKenobi

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i have now purchased many practice test booklets from the royal navy to better my chances a second time round (first time i just went through the practice test boooklet which i found very easy) but if the slightest thing goes round in my second attempt, i will no longer be able to apply for a royal marines officer which i think is rediculous at this stage as i am fit, strong, born leader and a switched on guy. i just think they are going to be loosing alot of men that are more than adequite enough to fore fill a prosperous carear as an officer in th RM/RN.
You may be fit and a born leader (how anyone can know that, I don't know), but a potential officer candidate might have prepared a little more substantially for the recruit test, especially since it is an important part of the selection process for a potentially life long career.

At least you are better preparing yourself this time, good luck. Any specific questions regarding the RT, just ask.
 

iceman78090

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You may be fit and a born leader (how anyone can know that, I don't know)
of course you know if you are fit or not (statistics to relate compare with) and secondly throughout university i have excelled my self as a leader, naturally enjoying the others and taking charge of situations naturally, quite an extrovert..where as many others prefer to take a back seat and are quite introverted in their actions.

ok i appreciated it, thankyou. could you provide feedback after your POC? thanks



.
 

DhobiWanKenobi

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of course you know if you are fit or not (statistics to relate compare with) and secondly throughout university i have excelled my self as a leader, naturally enjoying the others and taking charge of situations naturally, quite an extrovert..where as many others prefer to take a back seat and are quite introverted in their actions.

ok i appreciated it, thankyou. could you provide feedback after your POC? thanks
I was referring to your confidence with your leadership ability in my original post, but anyway the point I was trying to make is that most potential officers should prefer to lead rather than being led, but I doubt anyone could know they are a natural born leader until under fire on operations. To reverse that and give you credit, confidence is very important and you clearly have no problems in that department.

Yeah no worries, I have completed a POC before so if there are any specific questions, just shoot a PM. Cheers.
 

Rufus111

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I think that 80% is too high, it really doesn't leave any margin for error - no more than six incorrect in any section and its a 12 month wait. But I also think that the previous pass mark of 66% (in only two sections the maths and verbal, i think) was too easy. Perhaps somewhere in between!

I don't really understand everyone?s comments 'why are you complaining, you passed'. Are you really saying that just because you pass something you shouldn't complain or think it should be changed. Try reading the junior officers reading club, the author (who passed the Army's commissioning course) makes lots of comments about how out dated the training at Sandhurst is and doesn't prepare you for operations. The type of person who only objects when they fail at something but not when they pass, but still has the same objections. is a pretty weak character.
 

Baron

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You may be fit and a born leader (how anyone can know that, I don't know)
of course you know if you are fit or not (statistics to relate compare with) and secondly throughout university i have excelled my self as a leader, naturally enjoying the others and taking charge of situations naturally, quite an extrovert..where as many others prefer to take a back seat and are quite introverted in their actions.

ok i appreciated it, thankyou. could you provide feedback after your POC? thanks



.
That doesn't necessarily make you a leader, never mind a good one. Throughout my degree plenty of people tried to exert their authority during group work, all of which I would not hasten to describe as a leader; but rather, gobby idiots.

I know plenty of extroverts who would make poor leaders, and many introverts who would make excellent leaders. Introverts are often, and in my opinion, incorrectly linked with a lack of confidence. You show a lot of confidence, perhaps excessive amounts; however, confidence in a military setting is the ability to make a decision that may lead to loss of life, quickly, whilst under pressure. Can you make that decision? Just because you're able to talk confidently among your peers does not make you a good leader.


Two things.

Firstly, humility....get some.

Secondly, grammar... improve it.

I believe you are massively underestimating this application process. So you can pass POC, and then possibly AIB. So what? Many do. The level of competition for places is enormous, with many, many high calibre candidates not making the final batch (VTomasi springs to mind).

I don't mean to put you off. Indeed, you may well be the next Richard Winters; but I suggest you stop talking yourself up on here, and get out and make sure you earn that YO spot.

Best of luck,

Rich

P.S I hope my grammar was pretty much spot on after giving you some abuse for yours..
 
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