opinions on ant middleton.

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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And that’s the problem with social media, you say the words and take your chance. Engage brain before hitting send !
So you are agreeing with charging people for the thoughts that they hold, when they disagree with you? And you can engage your brain, say something then the goalposts change, and suddenly you are the bad person, criminal and can be charged?

I wholeheartedly disagree. Unless you are inciting violence and targeting a group, you should be able to say what you want.
Criticism isn’t hate speech, nor is saying something someone disagrees with.

Who determines hate speech? Offence is subjective. Context is key. It’s about perspective.

Otherwise you can be retrospectively charged for a crime then?
If you posted something before the date of a hypothetical hate speech crime law was put in place would I be charged?

This is a very dangerous precedent to set and a slippery slope to go down. This thought policing and police state is very Gestapo like.
 

Chelonian

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Imagine getting arrested for airing a view on this forum
What if something was said before the law changed? Would you be charged retroactively?
It’s a slippery slope to go down, we already have laws for inciting violence etc but getting arrested and charged for criticism?
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that within twenty years mocking gingers and short ärses will be considered as unacceptable as making disparaging comments about people because of their ethnic heritage or physical disabilities. And to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with that as I find consistency of policy comforting.

After all, gingers don't choose their hair colour. Doh! I've just done it again!
 

Chelonian

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Who determines hate speech? Offence is subjective. Context is key. It’s about perspective.
The courts determine it. Police might have a professional opinion on it but ultimately that's all it is.

In my opinion society gets confused between what is unfashionable and what is offensive.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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The courts determine it. Police might have a professional opinion on it but ultimately that's all it is.

In my opinion society gets confused between what is unfashionable and what is offensive.
But why arent the police passing it up the chain as to what is wasting police time and is not a chargeable offence.
 

Chelonian

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But why arent the police passing it up the chain as to what is wasting police time and is not a chargeable offence.
My guess... and that's all I'm doing is that some of these cases are very complex and time consuming. An arrest doesn't always result in a charge and a charge doesn't always result in conviction.

More speculation on my part: for the boots on the ground in a complex case it's possibly a better option to arrest on suspicion and let the investigative system, the prosecuting authorities and ultimately the courts carry the burden.

Others far better qualified than I am on this forum. Hopefully they might express an opinion.
 

CallMeLucifer

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I remember, somewhat recently, reading that a school girl got taken away by the police for "hate speech" because she was put into a group in class in which their English was abysmal. She said she didn't understand them and voilà.

I genuinely thought this was a wind-up, but I was left shocked. I'll have to look it up again when I get back home. But I'm pretty sure I'm in the ballpark with what happened.

Point being, 'hate speech' is now completely meaningless. I dislike America, but at least Freedom of speech is still sacred, there.
 

Chelonian

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I remember, somewhat recently, reading that a school girl got taken away by the police for "hate speech" because she was put into a group in class in which their English was abysmal. She said she didn't understand them and voilà.
Trouble is that most of the media will fly the story of an arrest but won't bother to follow up the story when it all turns out to be mundane and boring.

Does anyone recall the news story a few months back when a woman was arrested supposedly because she abducted her 97-year-old mother from the nursing care home in which she lived?

The daughter was actually arrested because she assaulted a member of staff while removing her mum; not because she had removed her mum from the care home. Obviously the mum's care needs would be the priority factor in determining where she lived.

The daughter was de-arrested within a very short time because all parties including Police and the assaulted care worker agreed that it was the best course of action. Not even a Police Caution for the daughter as far as I am aware.

 

CallMeLucifer

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Trouble is that most of the media will fly the story of an arrest but won't bother to follow up the story when it all turns out to be mundane and boring.

Does anyone recall the news story a few months back when a woman was arrested supposedly because she abducted her 97-year-old mother from the nursing care home in which she lived?

The daughter was actually arrested because she assaulted a member of staff while removing her mum; not because she had removed her mum from the care home. Obviously the mum's care needs would be the priority factor in determining where she lived.

The daughter was de-arrested within a very short time because all parties including Police and the assaulted care worker agreed that it was the best course of action. Not even a Police Caution for the daughter as far as I am aware.


That's true. Worst thing is people only read headlines, too. Like the story of the guy that got tasered because he had a butter knife. People only read the headlines and made their own conclusions.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Trouble is that most of the media will fly the story of an arrest but won't bother to follow up the story when it all turns out to be mundane and boring.

Does anyone recall the news story a few months back when a woman was arrested supposedly because she abducted her 97-year-old mother from the nursing care home in which she lived?

The daughter was actually arrested because she assaulted a member of staff while removing her mum; not because she had removed her mum from the care home. Obviously the mum's care needs would be the priority factor in determining where she lived.

The daughter was de-arrested within a very short time because all parties including Police and the assaulted care worker agreed that it was the best course of action. Not even a Police Caution for the daughter as far as I am aware.

But it shouldn’t have gotten that far in the first place.
The media don’t follow up because they just want reactions and knee jerks.
The true solution to “hate speech” isn’t restricted speech but free speech.

“To think is to risk being offensive”
 

Chelonian

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The true solution to “hate speech” isn’t restricted speech but free speech.
Agreed. But Police are obliged to investigate allegations and although Officers who initially attend are permitted 'discretion' I would guess that as long as the basic boxes are ticked the better career choice for an individual Officer often might be to process an incident so that it can be further investigated.

Societal and political pressures surely influence how justice is dispensed.
 

Former AE

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I’m only quoting what is written in the use of social media document which is on this site, if you post something online which is controversial then be prepared for it to come back and bite ya bum.
 

Hershey

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I think many of us forget that attitude is central to the way we have conversation, and often dictates the reward we receive from it. We can have all the free speech, all the civil discourse, all the robust debate we could wish for - but if we're not actually listening to the other party with genuine empathy, curiosity and respect, then we gain nothing. This is why so many people are frustrated with the level of debate in the House of Commons - the debates are so driven by one-upmanship, they have lost their humanity and their perspective. The attitude of the individuals engaged in a given discourse is a realm beyond the influence of legislation - but it's something we can all work on in our personal lives, and this makes a massive (and tangible) difference.

However, the main thing I take from this thread is that Ant Middleton could indeed have a promising career ahead of him depicting the adventures of a young Brian Blessed...
 

CallMeLucifer

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However, the main thing I take from this thread is that Ant Middleton could indeed have a promising career ahead of him depicting the adventures of a young Brian Blessed...
It's not all loss; the guy's set for life with the money he made from books and TV. I'v also seen him shopping at a Waitrose a few years ago. So you can tell he has a few quid in his pocket.
 

sharpe

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Yep, I post nothing on t'internet that I wouldn't post on the wall of my local town hall.
I think that’s the crux of it, if you have your real name attached to social media be very aware what you post. A lot of the unpleasant stuff seems to stem from anonymous untraceable accounts
 

Jaykay2343

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It's not all loss; the guy's set for life with the money he made from books and TV. I'v also seen him shopping at a Waitrose a few years ago. So you can tell he has a few quid in his pocket.
Great way to know when you've made it in life "Shopping at Waitrose"

...however many years ago I did see my neighbour parked in Aldi, where she was taking out of the trolley her shopping....into Waitrose bags.
 

Jaykay2343

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I’m only quoting what is written in the use of social media document which is on this site, if you post something online which is controversial then be prepared for it to come back and bite ya bum.

...that will be the day I come off this site.
 

Chelonian

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...however many years ago I did see my neighbour parked in Aldi, where she was taking out of the trolley her shopping....into Waitrose bags.
My neighbour is so posh her groceries are delivered by Waitrose. Bumped into her at Lidl just before Christmas and she almost apologised for being in there. Bless her.
 
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