Question about Royal Marines Commando website

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F.H.

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Hello,

I've been looking around the different RMC websites and I found this (quite new).


I wanted to understand why if anyone can tell me why this Marine has got an AR15 looking weapon instead of an SA80?

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Chelonian

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I wanted to understand why if anyone can tell me why this Marine has got an AR15 looking weapon instead of an SA80?
Others better qualified than I will hopefully comment. But if you examine the image the weapon has a very short barrel.
 

Dhobi-Wan

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43 Commando uses the C8. With the new Future Commando idea being implemented, Royal Marines will phase out the SA80 and all use the C8
 

TheRents

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The C8 is more suited to CQB, units where this is their primary role (43 42) use the C8 when required.
 

Chelonian

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As an aside, during its service from 1888 until 1982 the Lee-Enfield rifle defeated the Kaiser, Hitler and Galtieri.

In its final iteration as the L42A1 sniper it was even then allegedly coaxed out of retirement to be deployed with SF during GW1 in 1991.

Unsure if the SA80 will achieve the same length of service in about 2089. I won't live to see it: I'd be aged 129 years.
 

Rob20

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C8 is a much more flexible weapon in terms of being suitable for a number of different jobs. However I've spent most of my time on SA80 and dont think it's a bad rifle in the 'green' role.

But, I think an AR platform is much easier for lads to transition onto say sharpshooter rifle. You can see lads who have used c8 easily pick up the sharpshooter and crack on, and vice versa. But lads who have only used sa80 take abit longer to figure it out. Makes sense to me to try to employ weapon systems with similar designs but merr who cares really.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Apparently a lot of personnel aren't massive fans of it especially when the l85a1 was put into service.
The A1 was a dogs abortion of a rifle. The following variants were better, improved but still has issues. It’s an absolute weight and a half. Yanks were flabbergasted at how heavy and awkward it was to use and handle.

That being said although there’s a huge dislike for the L85, the C8 has its drawbacks too. People/civvies mostly like it because of its Gucci factor and it looks “ally”.

There’s downsides and benefits to both platforms.
Personally I think the L85 is old and needs replaced. It was a political statement. Is the C8 the replacement? I don’t know. There’s advantages and disadvantages.
The LSW however, was a terrible support weapon but was a good marksman weapon. With its own unique problems from the L85.

The old SUSAT sight was unbelievably turd. Awkward, heavy, post sight. The ACOG and the new ELCAN are vast improvements, especially with the CQB sight on top. The MOD has actually done well in that department.


What I think the corps need to look at is introducing suppressors.
 

SCOTTY6

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The weight difference is quite a lot between both weapons from going off wikipedia, I would imagine when moving between cover or just patrolling with a C8 would feel so much better.

I've not done the research but how come the C8 charging handle doesn't fly back everytime it's fired but the L85 does.

I'm surprised nobody tried to do a Blue Peter job and weld on a metal piece on to the cocking handle and make it over the back of the rifle and below the SUSAT and forward so it could be cocked left handed easier.

One way to lose all your teeth if you got close enough.
The boss been handing round his crack pipe ?
 

Chelonian

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I've not done the research but how come the C8 charging handle doesn't fly back everytime it's fired but the L85 does.
The SA80 has its charging handle fitted directly to the bolt carrier. Why? Economics and design practicalities probably.

On the AR15 platform the T-shaped charging handle disconnects from the bolt carrier during the firing cycle. Modern AR15-based receivers also incorporate a 'bolt forward assist' plunger which can be struck with the palm of one's hand to ensure that the bolt locks fully forward if the return spring fails to achieve a lock.

The M16s in UK service during the 1970s did not have bolt forward assist. I think that the modification arrived with the M16A1.
 

Rob20

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The weight difference is quite a lot between both weapons from going off wikipedia, I would imagine when moving between cover or just patrolling with a C8 would feel so much better.

I've not done the research but how come the C8 charging handle doesn't fly back everytime it's fired but the L85 does.

I'm surprised nobody tried to do a Blue Peter job and weld on a metal piece on to the cocking handle and make it over the back of the rifle and below the SUSAT and forward so it could be cocked left handed easier.

One way to lose all your teeth if you got close enough.

Ah, a future Armourer I see
 

Johnny_Anonie

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I'm surprised nobody tried to do a Blue Peter job and weld on a metal piece on to the cocking handle and make it over the back of the rifle and below the SUSAT and forward so it could be cocked left handed easier.

One way to lose all your teeth if you got close enough.

With respect, what a load of nonsense.

You will learn with experience that the overarching theme of any kit/weapon system is - Is it fit for purpose

The majority of trained ranks can hit targets at all the required ranges and in all conditions with the current version of the SA80. Ultimately this is down to a sound understanding of the marksmanship principles, good coaching and decent range time.

Are there better rifles, of course. But some of us here have fired the SA80 on operations and had no dramas at all. The holes in your training and knowledge will be filled during recruit training. For more reading please see the link below, it is an excellent discussion -

 

Rob20

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With respect, it was a bit of an amusing idea and not actually serious about it.

For a weapon system to have 3 different variations and someone on a public forum with no knowledge of how that process works makes a comment and you jump on it and try and ridicule someone about it.

I never said the weapon wasn't fit for purpose.

I never stated trained ranks couldn't hit targets at certain ranges.

I never said it was a bad weapon.

And for someone who hasn't fired any other rifles I couldn't comment if they're better.

I have had minimal training or knowledge with the weapon so I never stated I was an expert or had the experience to comment on it's use in the field.

All I commented on was about the weight which was sourced from wikipedia, asked about the charging handle which another member replied politely and educated me on, and made a joke comment about someone altering the rifle with an after market modification.

100% a bite ha

Chill out mate. No offence was meant im sure from Johnny. Just bear in mind sometimes when civvies try making a statement, even if it is a joke, regarding something 'military', occasionally it can come across abit cringey from a trained ranks point of view. No harm done by either party
 

Johnny_Anonie

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Echo the above, let’s reign in those horses and dampen tension. Definitely not aiming to ridicule you and your contributions on the forum are genuinely appreciated.


The reason this forum works so well is those with experience give up their free time to offer insights. I’m going to drop you a PM now so we are all on the same page, absolutely no hard feelings here.
 

SCOTTY6

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Grimey, just take a minute. This forum is open to all and debate and taking part in debate and conversation is obviously encouraged. But I’m not going to lie, at times I thought you were a trained rank from the nature of your replies. The service men and women who reply on this forum do it out of their own time, in a desire to help. Jonnie was passing some knowledge and knowing his background it would pay to listen to. In the corps and the armed forces nothing can compete with experience, and I think most trained ranks on here will agree, getting snappy with someone trying to give advice and pass on knowledge will get you absolutely nowhere.
 
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