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Quezzies for a trained rank

Discussion in 'General Royal Marines Joining Chit Chat' started by Welshy, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    All that's change in my opinion is society. We want things to be hard. We want to be let loose with training etc. The marines attracts a sort of person with traits that were the same 50 years ago. Hence why most bootnecks will have a slightly old fashioned view on things in comparison to civvy counterparts.

    However to say training is easier or softer now, however true that may be I dont know. But when I went through not so long ago, I saw nods get thrashed til they cried and whimpered. I saw other nods in the field get kicked in the head for safety infringements. There may be rules on camp, but get in the field things can and do get brutal at times.

    It still is a mans world and that's the environment I wanted to work in. If anything about that puts you off, is it for you?

    Training will never be easy. End of.
     
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  2. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Anyone attending secondary school in the 1960s and 1970s would be accustomed to the routine violence in these institutions. Specifically the casual violence meted out to school children by teaching staff some of whom by today's standards might be judged to be borderline psychotic. But that was the norm then and everyone accepted it as such.
     
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  3. Harry McRunFast

    Harry McRunFast Valuable Contributor

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    Sorry if I ticked anyone off with that question! -nailbiting-

    Definitely didn’t mean to if that was the case!
     
  4. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    No harm done. :)

    Here's a clip from Kes which could have been a teacher training video clip for the 1970s. If video had been invented back then.



    kes.png
     
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  5. Harry McRunFast

    Harry McRunFast Valuable Contributor

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    Swimming...

    Any rough guidelines on how strong of a swimmer one should be as a prereq for RMs?

    How many lengths should be comfortable? Anything other than simply swimming lengths... Treading water etc?

    Thanks!
     
  6. Royal2010

    Royal2010 Commando Training Wing Instructor

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    Don't join if you can't swim
     
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  7. A350-800

    A350-800 Valuable Contributor

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    I found your input very informative and helpful, Thanks.
    This may sound incredibly niave but the training team kicking people in the head reference but is a bit concerning though, I appreciate you are being trained to kill and training is hard but I was under the impression physically assaulting someone would be a court martial offence. I also appreciate people are being taught the hard way so they don't make the same mistakes in an actual situation so I guess you could argue there is good intention and i understand it is difficult to apply health and safety to some aspects of training amd obviosuly war is dangerous but that's very questionable justification and the particular technique of kicking someone in the face or any physical violence could end very badly quite easily, at the end of the day the training team still have a legal obligation and duty of care and I would expect them to deliver this, whatever the situation is, otherwise the consequences for both parties could sadly be serious.
    I realise this sounds a bit preachy from a someone who hasn't ever undertaken any aspect of recruit trainjng, Its just concerning to read as a potetial recruit and from personal experience I was 12 when I saw someone give my mum a punch to the face which came within a few cm of killing her, so I understand how a seemingly casual punch or kick to the head can have near fatal consequences and simply isn't to be tolerated. Does this kind of thing happen a lot (i may be completey wrong but I jnfered from your post this kind of thing happens a lot and is to be expected) because that kind of response whatever the safety infringement is completely unacceptable. It also surprises me the training team would be irresponsible enough to take that kind of risk of doing serious damage to someone and knowing they would be held responsible for it. I know if I apply for the marines there is a real risk I will get injured or hurt but I naively thought this kind of culture stopped in the 90s due to tragedies like deepcut.
     
  8. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    Go back to Achnacarry where live rounds would be used AT the trainees during serials. Its all about trying to simulate the pressures of combat as best as possible.
    The incident I mentioned is NOT a regular occurence. However, after adequate instruction had been given, having a recruit muzzle half his section and pull his trigger multiple times from the prone I thought was fair justification for a bollocking and a little tap. You can't let things like that happen and go unpunished, imagine the consequences if that was live field firing!

    "you'll get banged out at a unit for that" is more of a joke now than anything else. But should the first time our lads see violence aimed at them be when there is 7.62 whizzing around them? Na.

    All sympathy for your personal situation, however war (however inexperienced I may be on the matter) does not soften up over time, however it seems our generations mindset is softening and I think that is dangerous.

    I'll also echo a point I've made previously snd something I've learned from listening to the Afghan vets over time. The person who passes out of RM training is the same bloke who did so 20, 30, 75 years ago. Many different people join or try, but usually the lads at the end all share a similar mindset and the others fall by the wayside.

    If you're dream of a 22 year green lidded career is wrapped on because of a harsh but justified punishment received in phase 2 of training, did you want it bad enough?
     
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  9. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    After just over 39 years service, RN not RM (Happy Nautical Birthday to me, last sunday) I think there's always the perception "It were always 'arder in my day" or "Recruits nowadays are snowflakes" etc.,

    Truth is the methodology may change as training techniques and equipment evolve and become more efficient. Nowadays, correctly, the concept is to 'train to pass' rather than boast about high failure rates. Training for combat ops, is sadly not without risk but the safety & well-being of service personnel is of paramount importance.

    Back in the day, as an RN Firefighting instructor, the training was fairly brutal with diesel & tar soaked railway sleepers set ablaze in unlit steel structures with buckets of petrol lobbed about (I kid you not). It was extremely hot, dangerous, injuries were daily occurrences, it was disorienting, zero visibility, confusing, scary, very wet, extremely shouty.

    It left the "student" pretty certain that if there was a 'real' fire on board ship after a major hit, with casualties dotted about and great big holes with jagged metal - where there used to be a deck, deckhead or bulkhead, the best course of action was to make haste to one's liferaft station rather than charge towards an inferno between decks.

    Nowadays, training is conducted to perfect the techniques then put them into practice in a controlled, simulated environment.

    The argument used to be that you had to simulate the real thing, with all the fear that came with it. The old guard (myself amongst them) thought it maybe went too soft and wondered what would they be like in a real-life situation, having experienced it first hand myself.

    The truth - nowadays the people trained to go into fires, contain them, safely remove casualties and conduct damage control and recovery operations are probably equally, if not better trained than ever before.

    The only downside is they don't come out of the firefighting units, stinking of diesel fuel, covered in blisters & burns, smeared with oily soot from head to foot :(
     
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  10. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    There are probably plenty of anecdotes floating about. But context is important. Someone prone with a loaded weapon, endangering the lives of others with careless drills is likely to have his or her attention drawn to the fact by a nudge to the closest available body part.

    The Deepcut incidents, some of which remain contested and unresolved, were symptomatic of a shameful culture of institutional bullying.

    From memory, in recent years a DL at CTCRM was investigated and disciplined following allegations of bullying. The allegations were not made by Recruits but by his own colleagues.
     
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  11. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    It’s preferable that you swim and it will reflect better on your PRMC, however there is remedial training for non swimmers in recruit training.

    As long as you can hang out a few lengths comfortably and tread water for 2 mins that’s a good base to start with. The Battle Swim Test is done with clothes, webbing and Rifle but you won’t be expected to do that to start.

    Anyone got any upto date information on the swimming in PRMC?


    It’s usually off the high board, a good couple of lengths then tread water for 2 mins and retrieve a brick from the bottom of the pool.
     
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  12. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    The last I read was that it was swimming the four sides of the pool, therefore two lengths and two widths, or is that the BST?

    Do not even think about "walking" in the shallow end!

    Alan
     
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  13. Harry McRunFast

    Harry McRunFast Valuable Contributor

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    Ok thanks!

    Yeah I couldn’t really find any definitive guidelines with respects to standards, except the PRMC swimming test.

    Cheers!
     
  14. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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  15. A350-800

    A350-800 Valuable Contributor

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    Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it and it provides a sense of perspective
     
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  16. A350-800

    A350-800 Valuable Contributor

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    Thanks for your reply, I remember reading about that incident too.

    Out of interest what is the structure or procedure involved for recruits or training team staff who feel the need to report incidences of bullying, malpractice or a health and safety failure, its just in my current civilian employment there is a confidential whistleblowing number to report stuff like that and then procedures so that everyone gets to put their point across abiut the situation in a fair way with as little bias as possible, or at least in theory anyway. I don't want to give the impression I am always complaining or reporting people, I am also not trying to infer the marines have a problem with these things it's just good to know what welfare systems are available to potential recruits and how those systems work.

    When I went to a rm careers talk last year the warrant officer doing the talk made a point of saying they take any situations of bullying or malpractice seriously, he said he hadn't experienced any in the 22 years he had been there and that experience seems to be shared by all other marines I have spoken to
     
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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  17. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Straight answer from me to your question: I don't know.
    Someone on here better qualified than I will hopefully be able to give you guidance.

    I'll go out on a limb and speculate that there is a well established process and that any allegations of, say, bullying are thoroughly investigated.

    One of my jobs has a rigorous 'whistleblowing' process. Sadly, many regard engaging with it as career suicide. I'm certainly not suggesting that this is the case within the Armed Services but anecdotally, it's reality in some public sector and big corporate workplaces.

    This is an important topic. Hopefully others will chip in with their own experiences and comments about the reality today. No point in me harping on about what happened forty-plus years ago.
     
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  18. A350-800

    A350-800 Valuable Contributor

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    Thanks for the reply and your input, i appreciate it.
    I do often wonder how the whistleblowing system in my civilian employment would work in practice without damaging someone's career, I am a lifeguard on near minimum wage so I couldn't really get penalised as I am already at pretty much the bottom of the organisation but I imagine someone in a managerial position making a complaint there may be consequences for them. It would be reassuring if in the armed forces those of lower ranks have a mechanism or agency to recommend changes or report wrongdoing so changes can be made if neccescary
     
  19. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    No problem mate. And just to confirm, the training you'll receive is absolutely second to none. Countless hours will be given to the lads if needed all out of a willingness of the training team for the lads to succeed. The incident I mentioned was not a regular occurence and funnily enough it involved the best bootneck I've ever worked with, both in training and at unit. So much to say he now works with "another lot" o_O
     
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  20. A350-800

    A350-800 Valuable Contributor

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    That's great to hear mate, Thanks for your response it's very helpful for potential recruits to get this kind of insight into training from those who have done it