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Raw recruits: Squaddies at sixteen

Discussion in 'Jollies Bar' started by EnteKaiser, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. EnteKaiser

    EnteKaiser New Member

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    Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I've just watched the first episode, and having heard good things about it I was shocked to say the least. My main issue being how incredibly tame it was. Tame to the point that it was cringe inducing:
    -First of all, the politeness of Corporal Nevitt (AAC). Imagine your section Commander wishing you a "good night" on the first night of training. He seems almost overly friendly with the recruits and about as strict as the average geography teacher.
    -Recruits complaining about not going to sleep until around eleven each night, and enduring eighteen hour days... on the fourth day of training.
    How chatty and childish the recruits are allowed to be, even with the corporals. they are treated they're on a school trip. I was almost lost for words when a female recruit started singing 'old MacDonald' in the harbour area... they are so chatty and have no tactical awareness whatsoever. I understand that they are not yet 'militarised' but their training team are failing them in my eyes. The recruit was given a punishment of ten press ups (which she could barely manage) and the corporal had no qualm about her simply dumping her rifle in the mud (onto the cocking handle too) before doing this.
    -How "wet" the recruits are. Most of them seem to have less testosterone than the average lesbian couple, I've noticed couple that seem decent, but overall they don't strike me as the military type. This isn't a dig aimed at the recruits, more at the army's recruitment and standards. It really strikes me as Scraping the barrel... the recruitment situation must really be dire.
    -This has further cemented my belief that females belong nowhere near a military establishment. The number of tears shown were bordering ridiculous, a corporal even gave one of them a five minute rest because she got too emotional about how complicated she found her rifle and broke down into tears. Constant whining and bickering, female NCOs that act like mothers instead of disciplining and developing their soldiers. Far too much emotion, zero aggression, it just goes on and on. even if this mythical female that can absolutely smash phys and remain level-headed at all times does show her face, my mind will never be changed. It cannot outweigh the overwhelming majority (or what seems to me the universality).
    The idea that this adds anything to combat effectiveness is entirely beyond me. This will cost lives in the future, time will only tell. There is a reason that men have always done the fighting, and there's more to it than strength differentials and bone density. It is innate.

    The difference between this and Paras: Men of war truly is eye opening to me...
     
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  2. Hubb97

    Hubb97 Member

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    Just a quick one mate but I wouldn’t question other people’s suitability before you’ve done it yourself.
     
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  3. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Interestingly, one of the most common points raised after RN recruits complete training is "It wasn't as strict as I expected".

    Not heard that one from Royal Marine recruits but I do remember chatting to a recruit that used this forum who told me "I didn't expect to get shouted at so much".

    Believe me, it took Herculean willpower not to scream at him for personal amusement. I had to settle for a Roger Moore eyebrow-raise :(

    Please keep us posted on how your application goes. I look forward to hearing whether it meets your expectations.

    My understanding is we are one of the few countries that recruit people under age 18. Nor do we deploy them operationally until aged 18. Royal Marines aged 16-18 undertake mainstream traininng, Army recruits go to Harrogate, I think - it's a military college.
     
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  4. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Just out of interest, do you know enough lesbian couples to calculate a credible average? o_O

    The United Nations regards the recruitment and training of what it legally defines Child Soldiers as dodgy and criticises the UK for doing it.
    I've only seen a clip of the TV show but the attitudes of the young people are not unrepresentative and the TT appear to take age and immaturity into account.
     
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  5. Vine

    Vine Active Member

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    Lack of sleep isn’t long in making the toughest teary eyed not something I’ve done myself but a 16 year it’s at least understandable when you factor in home sickness, shock of capture and various other elements. As for the cpl, if every cpl was to scream at recruits all day chits would be flying in everywhere even marines are at times nice (not very often right enough) our cpl in fountain used to give us the corps prayer before bed (if I’m honest I loved it really made you feel part of the place even in the first week or two) and even though he was brutal he also gave us a laugh at times to balance it out it can’t all be pressure even more so with 16year old army recruits along with new things in the army restricting press ups given (not sure about the marines now). I went army reserve and got 5 yes 5 press ups when I went to look at how the kit muster was to be laid in the field without my rifle (it was already stripped and laid out it) my sgt even said sorry he didn’t know I nearly fainted with the shock because all I had known was the marines standards. These shows only show small parts of things look at how commando school has been reviewed anyone who’s even been on PRMC will tell you it’s miles away from reality. Don’t use shows as a guide to how things will be just keep your head down work hard and let us know how being piss wrapped and sleep deprived affects your mental state. As for the chicks admittedly most struggle in places on that show but there’s some immense women in our services across the board that have done, seen and been places that have saved many lifes that probably have been there aswell and men too for that matter doesn’t make you weak to have a cry even some of those blokes on SAS WDW have wellled up on tv. Your talking about tactical awareness with recruits in there first few weeks of training the only way to learn is to listen to your section commander and take the 'extra phys'’s when you mess up because believe me you will, everyone does it’s a learning curve no one shows up ready to be deployed keep watching the show and you’ll see the difference from week 1 to pass out that’s why it’s called training and keep in mind that it’s an army college not RM RT or paras that are ready to deploy after they pass out the pace will be deliberately slower.
     
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  6. Wings

    Wings Parachute Regiment

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    I didnt watch it all but it is a college not Arny training. Youd be amazed how many pars reg harrogate joes get to depot and leave due to realising how it actuslly is. However about the women I have to disagree shes 16 they cant culture shock you that quickly and 'extra phys' on tv will never be allowed to its full effect. Especially under 18 the public would have a whinge even though the job is about killing essentialy.
     
  7. robbo09

    robbo09 Member

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    As @Vine has said, just remember it’s army college and the training no doubt will be slower and not have a learning curve as steep as CTCRM.

    Don’t forget these documentaries are highly edited and shove weeks worth of training into an hours episode.

    You’d be surprised at how some individuals grow and adapt to training. There was an individual in my Recruit troop at CTC who you would say wasn’t the “military type”... he passed out as an original. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
     
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  8. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

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    I’m afraid your post shows a real lack of understanding at what is trying to be achieved at Harrogate. This is deliberately a softer option than Para Depot as it is trying to a achieve a completely different output.

    You need to get a more mature attitude before you start training as you will very quickly alienate those around you by decrying the achievements of others. Sorry to sound harsh but belittling others is not the way to go, particularly when you have not been through the system yourself.
     
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  9. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    My Nephew was on the DS at Harrogate many years ago, when he was a Cpl. He likened it to being a school teacher taking a class away from home for the first time. He had to be strict, but at the same time compassionate. He told me that when dealing with things like homesickness he used to put them on the phone to his Mum, my sister, who used to dole out motherly advice to the recruits, all without their own parents knowing. The downside was the recruits being told by my sister, that "Cpl Brown is just a big softy at heart!"

    Alan
     
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  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    I reckon Ofsted would consider that a positive observation.

    To be honest, although 16 year olds can and do successfully undergo Royal Marines Recruit Training, same as anyone else, the attrition rate is exceptionally higher than those in the 19-23 age bracket. Until twelve years ago the upper age limit was 28 - for the same reasons with regard high numbers of training fails.

    The MoD is exempt age discrimination legislation if it can prove there is a reason for it (they can). Interestingly though, we cannot discriminate against other groups with known training risks....as long as they meet the eligibility criteria and pass the entry standards. A good example of this is the known fact that certain groups suffer cold weather injuries much more commonly than North Europeans, other groups are notoriously poor swimmers, etc. We cannot exclude those groups as it would be illegal and similarly it is illegal to discriminate on grounds of gender (this works both ways), whether you agree or disagree.
     
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  11. Camz

    Camz Member

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    Not watched the show myself but the point made further up referencing it being more of a college than out and out military training is particularly pertinent. Having said that, phase 1 training itself for me wasn't particularly strict and was significantly more chilled out that I expected. It varied by training team, mine was a mixture of Scots Infantry and RLC. Our sister troop made up of RA/RE training staff had a remarkably different and less relaxed time.

    From my experience in a very laid back Corps the Junior soldiers came into phase 2 trade training with a solid knowledge of what is required of a soldier, but certainly lacked discipline (not all of them, but enough that it was noticeably worse than those coming from the 'adult' phase 1). There were also significantly more instances of them trying to get out/transfer.

    I do wonder how it is for those that go from Harrogate to stricter Arms and whether they are sufficiently prepared for the culture shock.
     
  12. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Watching tonight's episode I was surprised they screened a young person clearly suffering from behavioural issues. Appreciated they wanted to show the duty of care & counselling afforded but surprised Ofsted have not raised the issue with Channel 5, these are real people....and they are minors.

    I thought the Father of the young girl that quit was making a big mistake in coercing her to quit because he clearly wanted her to leave. He seemed very loving but seemed overbearing, controlling and almost intrusive - 'helping' her pack her kit etc. Odds are if she subsequently regrets leaving, he will find himself ostracised for trying to control her. It left me a little uneasy about the Dad who came across to me as selfish.