Reserve to regular SF

Discussion in 'RMR Section and RMR Selection' started by Just looking, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. Just looking

    Just looking New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Posts:
    6
    Hi,
    I've lurked on this forum for a bit now but full disclosure I went to the dark-side and went TA 2 years back, 6 rifles to be exact. I heard an interesting talk the other day about how UK SF being undermanned and the army being reduced and the reserves being increased that they would consider preparing reserves and letting them on full SF selection for SAS / SBS /SRR . This obviously got the younger lads in the unit super enthused. Bless, they all want to be the next man on the balcony.

    I personally couldn't see it working. I know their is an SF reserve element but they are Tier 2 units if you will, and they can attempt regular selection after a set period if they want. This is I understand because they train to work alongside them and would just be another progression.

    My query, has anyone on your side reg / RMR heard of such a thing? Don't get me wrong I'm very proud of the TA and we do the best we can with what we have but I think this might just be a bridge too far.

    I was *text deleted* post this in the jolly section, just to reflect the seriousness of it. I wouldn't post this on *text deleted* because I wouldnt expect anything too constructive from it ha. Any thoughts though?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. R4Robotics

    R4Robotics Spectator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    1,109
    Interesting post. Obviously bubble head stuff is all hush hush, but from my limited knowledge:
    21 SAS take civvies, are hanging out for lads and selection is not alinged to Reg Regiment tests (this may have changed)
    R squadron will only take lads with previous service and at one time had to have 1 tour. Think this has changed. Think the tests are alingned ie average speeds, etc. As for transferring to reg SB. Not sute, but think I have heard of FTRS being available

    SRR I have no idea of

    Think the above is in the public domain, but if anyone thinks otherwise please report/edit
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    The difference being.

    One will accept you direct from being a civilian for the other you need previous military experience.

    SAS(R) accept male volunteers who have no previous military service

    SBS(R) offers a unique experience and opportunity for selected individuals to serve with their regular counterparts. SBS(R) has a tri-service recruitment policy and only currently serving members of the UK Reserve Forces are eligible to apply.

    Rover
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker .

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    32,602
    This is an unclassified extract from the regular service RM careers handbook (Below in bold). There is no mention of Reserves to Regular & as stated above SBR(R) is only available to trained rank reservists. So far as I'm aware regulars can transfer to (R) but not the other way around, at present. If it has changed, those eligible will be informed through Defence Instructions and Notices (DINs) internally. All SF DINs are Restricted and not available in the public domain but are on the Defence Intranet at units. SFBC course dates are published each year within the "DIN Digest", under Channel 07. Relevant reference publications are listed within the document: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/236410/DINDIGEST_2013_April.pdf

    SPECIAL FORCES

    Approximately 40% of all UK Special Forces are recruited from the Royal Marines; a testament to the calibre of person who joins the Royal Marines and the ensuing basic training. Therefore, a Royal Marine is provided with the best possible platform to further his personal development if his desired future goal is to become a member of UK Special Forces.

    The Special Forces Briefing Course (SFBC) is a mandatory requirement for attendance on the Joint Special Forces Selection (JSFS), either as a Special Boat Service (SBS) or Special Air Service (SAS) candidate.

    SFBCs are held regularly throughout the year at either Poole (SBS) or Hereford (SAS).
    Though the course content varies slightly (details can be obtained from joining instructions), the procedure for applying is the same and is as follows:

    • Submit an ‘Employee Preference’ stating clearly either SFBC-SBS or SFBC-SAS. Applicants can submit a desire for a specific course/time of year but this date can not be guaranteed.

    • Applications will be processed in the normal manner and if the applicant fulfils the required criteria (age, time served etc), he will be noted as a volunteer for SFBC and be given an indication as to which SFBC he is likely to attend.

    • Two weeks prior to the SFBC a signal will be sent requesting confirmation of the individuals’ availability.

    • Individuals will be sent to the SFBC by their parent unit on confirmation that they are available and free from any restrictions.

    • Individuals who successfully complete the SFBC will be drafted to the next appropriate JSFS course.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 22012016

    22012016 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Posts:
    126
    Would not be the first time. The Americans had the 18X program for the Green Berets and option 40 contracts for the Rangers. Australians also tried a direct entry special forces scheme a couple of years back. The idea was, you would fill man power shortages in special operations units by having direct entry so prospective candidates would not spend however long in their regular unit, usually 2 years completing prerequisites like jump school for instance and possibly losing interest in a career in SF. Direct entry candidates would do all the training from recruit to advanced to selection as a block (airborne school, advanced infantry training for the Australians etc. . ) It was intended to be win win. If they passed, you've filled another shortage in an undermanned SF unit, if they fail they are R.T.U to an undermanned infantry unit or if they pass a certain point they of training they went into a support role for SF.

    In reality, as you'd expect the pass rate was not exceptionally high. 50 to 60 to start training with maybe 5 or 10 passing out. A large proportion not even reaching selection through criteria test failure or injury. It would be like doing recruit training and /or P company and then selection practically back to back. Ouch! The Americans critics said the program diluted the experience levels of SF units with purely raw recruits. Both programs did not run regularly and I think the Australian one is gone altogether.

    Could it work here? I've heard the IDEA of reserves doing F.T.R.S for 12 -24 months, then being put on selection after a minimum amount of time of regular prep in a unit e.g 6 months for example depending on their background. They would have obviously trained prior to this to get to an SF fitness standard but would join full time to be up brought to the current skill level of their regular counterparts. If they pass, they'll still be in their F.T,R.S contract window. Then can transfer full time to that unit S.A.S, S.B.S or S.R.R. with an appropriate return of service. If they fail R.T.U and fulfill the rest of their contract in a shortage roll (driver, clerk, chef etc) at that unit. Win win in theory I suppose

    With the army being reduced and the reserves increased, it wouldn't be unreasonable but who knows.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Just looking

    Just looking New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Posts:
    6
    Its not a relatively new idea so, just reserves instead of civilians.
     
  7. BrigRat

    BrigRat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Posts:
    1,899
    If that idea was to go ahead as a policy, I assume they'd still have to pass Regular SF selection, though?
     
  8. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker .

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    32,602
  9. R4Robotics

    R4Robotics Spectator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    1,109
    Interestingly the report only focuses on 21/23 and refers to taking on civvies. Does this mean that reading between the lines SBS(R) could be considered as augment able with regular SF as they take on only lads with military background?
     
  10. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    As regards SBS(R) I refer you back to #3.

    Rover
     
  11. R4Robotics

    R4Robotics Spectator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    1,109
    post #2 already stated the point made in post #3, so I am none the wiser on your thought unless I have missed a hidden message in your post that is agreeing with me. Was just opening a debate rather than asking requirements of each service
     
  12. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    The original question refers to reservist attempting regular selection for SF.
    “My query, has anyone on your side reg / RMR heard of such a thing?”

    My response was to clarify the information that is in the public domain, as per the following links.

    http://www.army.mod.uk/specialforces/30604.aspx

    http://www.army.mod.uk/specialforces/30603.aspx

    Both state that there is the opportunity to serve overseas with regular members.

    Andy32 expands on the requirements as regards the procedure for attending the SFBC. As is also pointed out SBS(R) is only available to trained rank reservist. Basically former regular Royal Marines, for obvious reasons.

    Trust this helps.

    Rover
     
  13. westy

    westy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Posts:
    1,679
    Just to clarify, do you have to be infantry for SBS(R) or any cap badge?!
     
  14. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    From the link I provided!
    Read and understand.

    Special Boat Service (Reserve)
    SBS(R) offers a unique experience and opportunity for selected individuals to serve with their regular counterparts. SBS(R) has a tri-service recruitment policy and only currently serving members of the UK Reserve Forces are eligible to apply.
    Regular military personnel may apply whilst in the last 6 months of their service pending transfer to a Reserve Forces Unit on discharge, details of which can be found on DII. See DIN2012 DIN01-018 for details.
    SBS(R) is based in the South of England but recruits nationwide.

    Successful candidates will need to display a high degree of commitment and fitness as the majority of the selection process is conducted to regular standard alongside the regular component.

    Contact details
    Tel: 01202 202714 / 2511
    Email: reserves@lake-park.co.uk
    If deemed suitable, applicants will be sent joining instructions for a five-day SBS Briefing Course. The course is designed to assess whether you have the aptitude, physical ability and stamina to pass UKSF Selection.
    Summary:
    • Must be a serving member of UK Reserve Forces
    • Nationwide recruitment
    • High physical fitness entry standards
    • A high degree of commitment required
    • Opportunity to serve overseas alongside regular counterparts

    Again although tri-service, for reservist SBS(R) is more inclined towards former regular Royal Marines.

    Rover
     
  15. 22012016

    22012016 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Posts:
    126
    That's the secret message I think. Understandable though, it's the reserve element of a 'Tier 1'' SF unit. Such a high degree of professionalism and ability goes far beyond the typical reservists training, no matter how eager he is
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2014
  16. R4Robotics

    R4Robotics Spectator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    1,109
    Rover - I have been in the system a while, so know the requirements and appreciate that the websites and the R Squadron presentation uses Gucci advertising incl. saying you will have the opportunity to work with Regulars, but as I pointed out my post was referring to the article which states:

    "Instead of taking part in operations alongside the regular SAS, the troops from the reserve battalions are now responsible for guarding members of the Foreign Office".

    As this article only refers to 21/23 i was asking for peoples opinions on whether they felt the media had overlooked the SBS (as they appear to do so often) or whether the R squadron lads were considered on pair with Regular lads. I have my opinions based on discussions with lads who have touched both services and wondered what the general feeling was not the pussers answer. I'm assuming we share the same opinion, but based on different rationale.

    Even if my post didn't achieve it's goal at least we have pussers answers on here for any newbies ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    [/quote] Even if my post didn't achieve it's goal at least we have pussers answers on here for any newbies ;)[/quote]

    IMHO.
    When it comes to the media, SBS and the SAS could not be more different.

    Where the SBS tend to shun any coverage the SAS would seem to actively seek attention. Look at the number of books produced by former members of the SAS! Whilst if you count Paddy Ashdowns book on Operation Frankton the SBS have produced three. The other two by former members who were then declared PNG by SB.

    A number of incidents which can be found in the public domain you will see that the SAS are always portrayed as the main player with little if any mention of any other unit involvement.

    Interestingly the SBS were formed before the SAS and operational before them as well. Not something they ever mention but information within the public domain.

    As you say same opinions but based on different rationale.:)

    Rover
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. spc_449

    spc_449 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Posts:
    176
    App Stage:
    Passed AIB
    That's interesting. Do you mean that SBS(R) simply prefer former regular marines or do you mean that it's an unwritten rule that you have to be former reg to apply?
     
  19. Bootra

    Bootra Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    You don't have to be an ex reg to apply. Lads that have joined the RMR as nods can and have applied for SBS(R). It goes without saying that having some time in, and operational experience, will benefit anyone who wants to go SF. But you can certainly get that through the RMR these days.
     
  20. Rover

    Rover Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    3,070
    For those who are missing the point from my post, #14.

    Note the following,

    SBS(R) has a tri-service recruitment policy and only currently serving members of the UK Reserve Forces are eligible to apply.
    • Must be a serving member of UK Reserve Forces.

    I believe that this explains the criteria regarding who can apply for SBS(R), no unwritten rules!

    Now if I may apply some simple logic.

    It stands to reason that any former regular Royal Marine is more likely to be viewed as having a better chance of being accepted for a Briefing Course than say any none ‘Green Lidded’ person from the other services. Other factors to bear in mind being the cost involved and length of time for the training.

    There is a big difference between people ‘going for selection’ and those being accepted for the Briefing Course.

    Again from my post #14,

    “If deemed suitable, applicants will be sent joining instructions for a five-day SBS Briefing Course.”

    Actually being accepted for the Briefing Course is no guarantee that you will even succeed in being loaded onto a selection course.
    It is not unknown for serving Royal Marines to fail the first day of the Briefing Course!

    Rover