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Rmr or sas(r)

Discussion in 'RMR Section and RMR Selection' started by pick1, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    Fair one mate.
     
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  2. Grey man

    Grey man Royal Marines Commando

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    Physical & MATT standards required by RMR are the same that are expected by regs.
     
  3. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Yea I wasn’t contesting that.
     
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  4. Grey man

    Grey man Royal Marines Commando

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    You said “None of that post is true”.

    Besides, you're allowed to leave the RMR - nobody is forcing you to stay TPA. Dry your eyes, do the job or move on.
     
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  5. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    I was aiming it towards the management side of it and Mate morale is in the toilet. Lads are leaving and barely turning to. Retention is in the Elson. Managment is terrible and there’s glaring problems that keep getting ignored.

    And yep I am fully aware of leaving. Something a lot of lads are considering and I have been contemplating on and off now for the last year but I don’t want or like giving up. And I’m holding out for the FCF changes and seeing if the situation improves.

    However the lads don’t appreciate getting blamed for managements failings. And when recruits even start to question what the point of passing out is, that speaks volumes.

    RMR doesn’t feed me and keep a roof over my head. My civilian employment does. And when lads get told “don’t rely on your RMR pay” because they can’t even get that right, then the RMR shouldn’t expect to rely on our free time. Then lads get guilt tripped for having other priorities.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  6. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    To be fair to @ThreadpigeonsAlpha he was right to pull me. I made a broadbrush generalisation. I’ve actually never served alongside any RMR ranks.

    I did work with a few 4 PARA lads though who came on HERRICK with us. They joined us from pre deployment. It was widely accepted that although they had to reach the same standards (same Pcoy timings etc) they did not have the time to train to the same frequency or intensity as the regs.

    There was an acknowledged “skills gap” ahead of pre deployment. This however was closed quite quickly and they were brought up to scratch after a good pre deployment package.
    They became indistinguishable from regular riflemen very quickly . The banter however of them being “stabs” flowed throughout the tour though :D
     
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  7. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    To be fair The whole “have you worked wit RMR” wasn’t a dig but more of a jovial exclamation.

    To be fair to RMR the standards are the same or as near as possible to the regulars, but at what cost...

    Plus there’s a huge gap of kit and training. Yea the tests are the same, fair one but continuation training and SQ training RMR are left a bit behind. Maybe with FCF coming in this could change.

    Although from the lads that deployed recently they got on well.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  8. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    I eat jovial exclamations for breakfast. It’s all good! Just like the time you stripped naked and demanded a roll mat fight :eek:
     
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  9. Collieryboy

    Collieryboy Well-Known Member

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    Did they integrate with 2/3 PARA or with other units?
     
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  10. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

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    Dotted around 2 PARA. Who presented as the main fighting component of 16 Air Assault Battle group. The coy I was attached to had at least four 4 PARA privates attached throughout the various multiples. Unsure how many deployed in total.

    Good blokes.
     
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  11. Grey man

    Grey man Royal Marines Commando

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    It’s all good- debate is healthy! I’ve deployed as a reg alongside a smattering of RMR on H14. They mobilised for the full tour cycle. Didn’t have much dealings with any on the ground.

    The upshot of them being with the blokes for entire cycle was you had no idea who was RMR and who was RM. As an example, the OC’s multiple 2ic was a RMR Sgt. The lads didn't care, and there was certainly no 'rubber dagger' nonsense either. He'd mobilised for the full whack, and was on his second trip if I recall correctly.
    There was no separate 'RMR' HQ - they came under the RN Reserves chain for (R) stuff, but were 100% squared away and fully owned by CGRM for anything else.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  12. 1919

    1919 Member

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    I had an instructor from 21 SAS on an adventure training package when I was in the Army Reserve. He'd quit RMR recruit training as he didn't like the discipline and "the nonsense".

    That either says something about the quality of reserve SF, or it's reflective of different units with different ethoses, respectively suited for different kinds of individuals. Perhaps a bit of both but I'm nowhere near qualified to judge.

    If RMR training is anything like the Army Reserve though, some of the 'ironing gym-shorts', locker inspection aspects of training -- which he was referring to -- are reined-in anyway as there just isn't the time, for better or worse.
     
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  13. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    I imagine that someone somewhere will be pondering the dilemma:

    Adjutant General's Corps (R) or Royal Logistics Corps (R)? :)
     
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  14. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando

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    -vomit--vomit--vomit--vomit--vomit--vomit--vomit-
     
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  15. Grey man

    Grey man Royal Marines Commando

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    It isn’t nonsense at all, basic training for all members of the military involves the development of self discipline.

    All serving members of UKSF will have gone through the development of military discipline. They do not bypass this.

    Prior to joining UKSF service personnel must have served for a minimum of 24 months, not including basic training. UKSF (R) requires its candidates to complete basic military training ahead of selection if they are joining as direct civilian entrants. The military has to be a disciplined force, so every rank needs to follow the rules and be responsible for themselves.
     
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  16. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando

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    To echo @Grey man's point, in terms of nonsense I think RM Recruits are given a hell of a lot more respect and responsibility from the system.

    I couldn't believe it when as a nod on a visit to HMS Raleigh I went to pick up Bagrats from the galley and was questioned why I wasnt accompanied by a trained rank. They literally cannot do anything or go anywhere without a trained rank holding their hands. If you're looking for nonsense, HMS Raleigh and a few other branches training establishments are the place to look. CTC however, once passed the initial "cull phase" of training I'll call it, the responsibility increases massively, for example the IC Tapes and Diamonds etc.

    I wonder, and this is not to discredit the guys later achievements, if he simply couldn't hack that level of training and commitment at that point in his life. To call it nonsense, could quite understandably hack off those of us who have been through the system. There are many things in training you initially wonder why is it in place, but looking back the training package and the pace of progression is spot on!
     
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  17. 1919

    1919 Member

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    I don't think it's nonsense either. But, the full basic military training that SAS (R) go through prior to selection is only 5 weeks long: Alpha (1 week), Bravo (2 weeks) and then the Combat Infantryman's Course (2 weeks). In comparison to the regular 6 months or so, there simply isn't the time for a lot of the discipline building as imparting the 'mechanical knowledge' of the job is deemed more important.

    I've been through the above with those going for SAS (R) selection and they definitely miss out on what a recruit goes through in foundation at CTC. I doubt anyone in 21 or 23 going straight from the civilian world, at least recently, has ever had a locker inspection.

    A reservist infantryman before being mobilised would have to spend a significant amount of time getting up to scratch in both discipline and job knowledge before they'd be permitted on ops.

    For the 21 and 23 guys, I'm not really sure where they'd get it from. But that's potentially a small part of the reason they appear to be struggling to find a role for themselves and are no longer under the USKF bracket, and why the RMR seems to be operate a bit more seamlessly with its regular counterpart.
     
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  18. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Or it’s just anecdotal and that’s what he found worked for him.
     
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  19. 1919

    1919 Member

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    Yeah, undoubtedly.

    It's just something to consider for the OP and those interested. The Army Reserve is very much orientated around what individuals in their own circumstances are able to contribute, some more than others. This seems to work well for specialists skills units (the thinking being that it's just not worth it to be thrashings and handing out show parades to middle-aged doctors, lawyers, nurses, media profs etc. with in-demand expertise giving up their spare time) and somewhat well for 'standard' teeth arms as the limited time is chiefly spent on gaining core skills, which are then just kept ticking over at a unit, with the expectation of big training period be spent with a regular unit prior to any mobilisation. (Not to say there's no discipline or no thrashings, but it's not to the same degree).

    A bleed-over of at least a little of this attitude into more concentrated organisations like the SAS, or even 4 Para (whose training is less than half the length of the RMR), does appear to cause issues in harmonising with the regular element.

    As you've pointed out in your other posts though, the increased commitment for the RMR brings its own problems for both the individual and the organisation.

    Another option for the OP also if they're interested in the SF-ish role and live in/around London is the Honourable Artillery Company.
     
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  20. thirdtry

    thirdtry Member

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    To add to the posts above. I have two former RMR troopmates who are now badged SAS reservists, funnily enough having both VWd from RMR training around the midway point. Their opinion is something similar to the above - less about the basic military discipline which they were ok with but more (to generally paraphrase:) "SF(R) value maturity and life experience and ask you to use it to your advantage. RMR tell you that you are worth nothing until you earn a green beret and make sure to treat you like that. Different methods for a different outcome." Bold text being a key point - they are not the same job.

    In my limited post history I have once given an overview of how I found RMR training, as that original post requested candid RMR training feedback. I generally keep opinions to myself but I will stand by saying there were times in RMR training that some extra coaching and development could have helped some of us (myself included) over yet another sprint around a tree or crawl through a puddle. I'm led to believe SF(R) selection puts more emphasis on that coaching and development as there's enough pain on the hills to negate the need for much "extra phys".

    I'll now quite happily slide back into keenly following this thread as a lurker.
     
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