School leavers in RT

Old Man

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Evenin' Folks,

Does anyone have any idea of the average numbers of 16/17 year-old school leavers starting RT and their success rate?

In fact, any sort of breakdown of ages/success rates might be of interest.

Thanks in advance.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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I'm certainly no fan of statistics as you can interpret the figures to suit the argument, however:

"Wastage" is the term applied to those who leave the service during training.

There are 3 main categories (There are others, but these cover most):

PVR - Premature Voluntary release (After serving 28 days, you may submit notice to quit during the first 26 weeks)

DUDT - Discharged Unsuitable During Training. (This covers a huge range of reasons ranging from homesickness/partner/family pressure in the first 28 days before an individual can submit PVR, it can cover disciplinary issues, positive drugs test, lack of fitness, poor attitude, false/fraudulent applications, criminal convictions, withdrawal of security clearance, financial irresponsibility)

NFA(MED) - Not Finally Approved Medical. (Anything from underweight, overweight, allergic reactions, asthma, discovery of pre-existing/known, but undisclosed medical conditions, long term illness and injury - the list is endless)

The Naval Service as a whole has a PVR rate running at around 7%. Whenever anyone submits PVR, there is often a caveat attached preventing a fresh application to rejoin within a set timescale (from immediate to two years, sometimes three). Re-applicants forgo the right to submit PVR on rejoining.

The Naval Service as a whole has a DUDT rate running at around half the PVR rate.

The Naval Service as a whole has a NFA(MED) rate running at around half the DUDT rate. Overall wastage runs at approximately 12%. Of that 12%, 25% are under 17, 20% under 18, & approx 10% (ish) for each 3 year age band thereafter.

The Royal Marines Commandos, in relation to the Naval Service as a whole, has slightly different proportional wastage returns due to the extreme physical demands & the inherent likelihood to sustain physical injuries, hence the existence of Hunter Company to minimise losses through injury- well before the much newer RN version called Stonehouse Division.

Through no fault of their own, younger people have problems with the physical aspects of training because they are still maturing physically and mentally, usually until they reach approximately 21. Generally the younger lads are faster over the shorter distances & because they are carrying less mass, are able to perform proportionally well with regard upper body strength. The main weakness is the endurance/longer distance aspects coupled with load carrying.

I don't have age specific statistics for Recruit Training based on 'all-up' annual figures, but it is true to say that the higher proportion of Recruit Training pass-outs occur amongst those around 21, but then there are more people applying at this age too. I've certainly never heard or seen statistics quoted anything like the ones seen in previous posts on this thread, so wouldn't like to hazard a guess, particularly as mental maturity and attitude is a major factor and the average 16 year old varies greatly in this particular area.
 

spartan

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im 16 and i hope im that 5% *text deleted*
 
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critchmufc

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life isnt about the statistics, life is about *text deleted**text deleted*ing the statistics right off

becuase if you do think statistics, then you shouldnt have joined




.....oh yes, i can be deep
 
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critchmufc

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statistics sre made up of 3 or 4 test groups/runs usually
 

spartan

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yea i dont care how many other people my age have failed, im still going to do everything i can to pass
 

HHHNNN

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on the royal marine live chat he said he had taken a troop through training......the 4 sixteen year olds in init had all made it to the end
 

Hoppy99

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Whether or not you trust the statistic, it doesn't matter!
Your 32 weeks will surely be the hardest thing you have ever done, but if you give everything you have then you will get through!
Think how well you have done already.
You have passed your PRMC which is a lot further than the majority of our age group would have done, so in the eyes of the Royal Marines, you have shown to have the 'state of mind' and the physical potential!
Now just crack on and get fit for RT, and then when you pass out, give statistics the 'two finger salute'! Easy!

WOW!! Anyway, good luck with RT!
:notes:
 

Ninja_Stoker

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The thing about wastage in general is there's always a "blip" after a leave period, particularly after the longer summer break. The time most individuals under 18 submit their PVR is traditionally each September.

Usually about two or three weeks later, many return to the AFCO claiming they have made a mistake. By that time the monthly wastage return has been published with a minimum recommendation before an individual may re-apply.

Having just had a perusal of this year's stats since April, there's actually more people over 18, than under 18 that have left the Corps in Recruit Training - then again there are more people joining over the age of 18 than under.
 

RM-Mum

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I know it's a few years off yet, but, with the school leaving age being raised to 17 for this years Year 7's (taking affect from 2013) and to 18 by 2015, the day will come when there aren't any under 18's in the Armed Forces at all.

I was wondering if it was going to have a huge effect on recruiting throughout the AF, but if most of applicants are over 18 anyway, then it probably won't make too much of a difference, other than the RN, Army and RAF having to raise the minimum joining age.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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It's rather interesting issue with regard unemployment statistics and all is not as it outwardly may seem with the initial sweeping statement that education is compulsory until 18.

As long as secondary school students continue their education with an accredited training provider beyond year 11 until they are 18, then the criteria is met.

When you look at it, this doesn't mean that those who wish to take-up employment aren't able to do so from the age of 16, as long as they continue with their education. This means that companies offering apprenticeships and further educational qualifications may employ those under 16 if accredited as a training provider.

Currently the Royal Marines offer the following qualifications during Recruit Training:

Public Services Level 2 Apprenticeship – Includes key skills Application of Number (AoN) and Communication @ Level 1 and Improving own Learning and Working with Others @ Level 2
British Computer Society Level 1 Certificate for IT Users (ECDL Part 1)

And for those who are injured in training & placed in Hunter Company:

First Aid at Work HSE Certificate
Problem Solving key skill Level 2
AoN and Communication Level 2
 

Old Man

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Many thanks for all that info Ninja, although my thoughts were more along the line of -

What is the average number of recruits per troop?

What is the average number of school leavers per troop?

What is the average success rate overall?

And finally, what is the success rate for the youngsters?

I realise you've given average annual percentages but have you any idea how these translate to actual numbers per troop?

I wasn't looking for precise figures, just a general idea.

Good points, by the way, re fitness and maturity of young versus older. I'd noticed that while training in a comletely different sphere some years ago.

Thanks again.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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Unfortunately there are no external published figures released to give an accurate representation of joiners & corresponding wastage by age- breakdown available to me. Doubtless someone somewhere has these figures, but wastage returns are published monthly & do not indicate who remains in the troop, only those that leave.

There are roughly 50 Recruits per troop joining each fortnight, but troop numbers can drop as low as around 20 as the troop progresses through the 32 weeks.

From AFCOs about 1 in 3 applicants get as far as attending PRMC eventually from submitting an application form, but this is not an age-related issue & even this figure varies massively across the country.

The number of U18's leaving seems to average about one or two per month for wide ranging reasons over the year as a whole, but I cannot say with any accuracy how many U18 Recruits there are in training at any given point to give a proportional wastage figure subtracted from those that complete Recruit Training. There will be well over 500 undergoing training or in Hunter Company at any one time, of all age groups.

My apologies for not being able to give an entirely satisfactory or accurate answer.
 

jcooke

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Lads I am 21 years old at the moment, nearly 22. I have finished university and have decided to follow up on my life long ambition of joining the Royal Marines.

A lot of people say that wastage and pas out rates have a lot do with life experience and physique, and thats what will get you through training. On this I would say that I now, am a very different person to that of myself at 16, and I knew then I could no way have completed the 32 weeks AND done tours in Ghanners or Iraq, however, that said I know of two of my good mates who went staright in at 17 and loved it! both passed out, though both had the mental strength to survive back trooping and hunter coy.

Therefore I guess my only idea on this whole age scenario at all, is you will know when you are truly ready. As cheesy as that sounds, I know that I am ready now, and am brimming with confidence and excitement about what is to come. If you know that you are ready too, then statistics don't matter.
 

Old Man

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Thanks Ninja for those figures.

From my interpretation, it would seem that a majority of all age groups succeed in completing RT, although not the case in each individual troop.

Based on RN figures, it would seem that 3-in-4/4-in-5 youngsters pass.

Adjusted for the Marines, do you think it would be fair to say, that overall, a majority succeed.
 

Ninja_Stoker

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...do you think it would be fair to say, that overall, a majority succeed.

Yes eventually, if they get as far as starting recruit training. One of the things I've learned, since being involved in recruiting, is that the Royal Marines invest more time, money & effort in trying to ensure their recruits succeed than any other arm of the services I've witnessed. However, they will not lower their standards to achieve this, no matter what.

My own perception & honest opinion is that guys of 16 years of age, if they have:

1) Virtually no financial commitments,

2) Are fit & properly prepared, not carrying any injuries,

3) Are focused, mentally & physically mature beyond their years,

4) Have no long-term social commitment with a partner or have a partner that is 100% supportive and 100% financially independent

5) Most importantly, have a fully close & supportive family...

Should have as good a chance of passing as their older troop colleagues - many of whom have a much more complicated life from the outset.
 

Old Man

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Thanks Ninja,

No problem re not having specific figures, I think the generality of your answers better answered the question, particularly the extras you mentioned, such as maturity and family support etc.

If I recall correctly, the youngest member ever of the SBS, in a one-off experiment, joined straight from RT. He was only about 17.
 
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