Sponsored Ad

Dismiss Notice
For fuller site visibility and advert-free browsing, simply log-in or register.

Should I get a degree?

Discussion in 'POC Section' started by AverageJoe, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. sharpe

    sharpe Valuable Contributor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    Posts:
    345
    App Stage:
    Parent
    @john smith there are more choices available now to young people. A lot of my sons friends are engaged on modern apprenticeship programs, well paid and degrees are included with no fees to pay. A degree won’t guarantee you becoming anything, you as an individual will still have to do the hard yards. Good luck
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Posts:
    902
    Interesting thread


    For a Royal Marine Officer cadet, their professional identity as a marine and leader is forged simultaneously. I really love the fact CTC trains officers and ORs. Taking up that leadership identity is the key because with this identity comes a clear sense of their role and responsibilities, which are reinforced constantly during the 16 month training.

    Whether or not you have a degree an officer has an obligation to help 'make sense' of a situation, he also has an obligation to give it 'meaning', to communicate through word and deed what is most important and why.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. AverageJoe

    AverageJoe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Posts:
    44
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    mile and a halve = 9:28
    bleep test = around 10
    press ups = 40
    sit ups = 70
    pull ups = 3
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    34,576
    Interestingly, my son is currently doing his masters degree in computer science, despite my careers background and 'informed angle' as a careers adviser informing him of the vocational aspect of a graduate apprenticeship scheme. He obviously makes his own choices in possession of the facts, and rightly so.

    My guess is he'll hopefully use that achievement as a vocational entry point into the world of work at the age of 22. I reckon he'll have about £60K student debt together with nil work experience, like a large number of his peer group. My hope of course, is that he doesn't end up working in an unrelated profession, together with many other graduates who find the job-market more difficult now than ever to gain a foothold due to the proliferation of university education which has raised the bar. For me, as long as he is happy in his career choice, that is all that matters.

    The issue is the educational establishment is basically a self-licking lollipop that encourages further education in order to expand their business model and let's not kid ourselves, further education really is big business.

    The bottom line is we all make our own decisions based on our youth and experience at that point in time and then live our lives as a result of those decisions made at a young age or make changes as we gain experience.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  5. PotentialBootneck

    PotentialBootneck Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Posts:
    73
    Do they offer the officers training for the reserves?
     
  6. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    34,576
    After completing training as an Other Rank, yes.

    Be aware, RMR trained Officers would not routinely undertake the same operational role as Regular RM Officers - they are not deployed as Troop Commanders, for example.
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  7. PotentialBootneck

    PotentialBootneck Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Posts:
    73
    So would that be further training as a reservist to become an officer or would it be a full course down at CTC?
     
  8. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    34,576
    It's usually done in blocks I believe.
     
  9. Decapitari_G

    Decapitari_G Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Posts:
    41
    App Stage:
    Passed PJFT
    Yes, this is an interesting thread with many good points on offer. I agree with ninja that further education institutions have a business model approach and Brexit has more or less entrenched this now more than ever as we won't be getting any EU funding for research projects, so UK universities will have to find this from their consumers which are the students. There are many universities now that provide a "service" rather than teach. Such is the world we live in today.
    That said, there is no right or wrong choice as to whether you want to get a degree before the Corps or not. In my experience work experience trumps a degree nowadays as so many people have degrees. I believe there was a stat somewhere that said 30-40% of Marines have degrees. In my troop there were myself and 6 other lads who had a University degree of some sort, which shows the proliferation and dilution of what a degree now means I guess as so many people have them.
    As we are on this forum and talking from my own personal experience and if I had your options I would choose to join the Corps as an Officer without going to University. Then after a few years, I would reconsider that option, potentially doing RMR as an Officer and going to University too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Harry McRunFast

    Harry McRunFast Valuable Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2019
    Posts:
    176
    App Stage:
    Passed Interview
    My bold.


    Can confirm. I got my degree a few years ago, worked a good job for a year after graduating but situation changed.

    Feels like my life is on hold at the moment. Without experience, employers are very unlikely to give you the time of day!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Posts:
    8,778
    A thought provoking thread.
    As much as I dislike the phrase 'thinking outside the box' it might be worthwhile if considering a university degree topic; either pre-service, while serving or post-service.

    A friend of mine has worked for a series of pharmaceutical and agri-chemical corporations for much of his working life. At stages within his career he has focused on recruitment which is almost always graduate level.

    Big-pharma corporations always recruit science grads, don't they? Actually it can be more complex than that. Apparently one of the highest prized degree subjects is history because of the depth of analysis and critical thinking acquired. Skills that are highly prized when someone moves away from the 'science bit' or in finance the 'banking bit' and then begins managing multiple, global projects.

    Think 'portable skills.' Many careers have a degree requirement but the subject is often irrelevant. Also, anyone studying, say, Open University should be aware of the self discipline required over a sustained period. From personal experience it's much easier if you actually enjoy studying the subject.
     
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 2
  12. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Posts:
    902
    I like to think inside the box these days. So many are thinking outside of it, the box is nice and empty now.
     
    • Hoofin Hoofin x 8
  13. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,455

    It’s possible. However isn’t the best route for everyone.
    There’s aspects of POC and Officer training that a Degree (a real Degree not something like art or basket weaving) will benefit.

    Don’t get me wrong there’s lads with degrees that fail POC and go onto become Marines. And there’s lads that have the UCAS points and no degrees that pass POC. But they are outliers.

    It all comes down to your aptitude, maturity and a lot of other personality traits that’s not everyone would have without that life experience and or experience within University.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  14. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,455
    You attend RMR training as other ranks and become a Marine.

    Then depending on the billets available or the requirment for Officers at your local RMR unit, you request it, then if your chain of command think it’s a good idea, they put you forward.

    You then attend an Admiralty Interview Board. If you pass that, you then attend blocks of Officer training throughout the year.

    It’s a high commitment, not always available and a long drawn out process.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Gucci Info Gucci Info x 1
  15. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    34,576
    @john smith, just the put another angle on it, a year or two back around 85% of RM Young Officers (YO's) entered RMYO training as graduates. My guess is that figure has increased rather than decreased.

    That isn't to say graduates are preferred however the optimum age in which to achieve success during training 21-24 as an RMYO.

    My guess is this is due to maturity and experience of independent living...a by-product, for many, but not all, university graduates.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Johnny_Anonie

    Johnny_Anonie Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Posts:
    902
    @Ninja_Stoker makes a great point!

    I certainly never looked at it from this angle. University can help gain a certain amount of emotional intelligence. This may be to do with the difference between an 18 and a 21 year old. But it may also be because you have lived with a group of new people from different backgrounds in an unfamiliar environment. This means that you should have a certain degree of tact and empathy. In military terms can give you the bedrock of being good at communicating and being a capable team player.


    However with my Police hat on- I used to be opposed to the idea of would be students having a "gap year" before university, but having seen the immaturity of many of our university students in my professional capacity, I've come round to believing it's a very good idea, particularly if they travel and work to pay their way. They would get real experience of the world and see real poverty in some countries. @Chelonian point about “portable skills” is great!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. TheRents

    TheRents Valuable Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Posts:
    171
    App Stage:
    Parent
    Just asked the new Lt, how many lads were non grad entries in his batch. Of the 50% that passed out approximately 33% were non grads!

    This batch may be an anomaly but whatever the stats the Corps, like any good organisation, needs a broad spectrum of people from different backgrounds, different life experiences and different skill sets to be at it’s best!

    In the end get all the advice you can, but go with what YOU think is right for YOU

    Whatever you decide give it everything you have and I cannot overstate how much I hope to be congratulating your P&P’s on your Pass Out in a couple of years :)

    All the very best
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Gucci Info Gucci Info x 1
  18. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    34,576
    That's certainly an interesting fact which outwardly seems to endorse the notion that degrees aren't necessary to become an RM Officer.

    Whilst the spilt is nearer 85/15 (Grad/non-grad) upon entry, the output is nearer 66/33 which suggests the non-grads (certainly in this batch) were, very roughly, twice as likely to succeed - if the split was originally 85/15 (the 'average' split).

    My guess is a proportion of the non-grads may well be former RM Other Ranks.

    It would be interesting to hear if any RMYO's joining at 18 passed out and whether the pass-out academic split is typical or unique.

    My thoughts are that non-grads with prior work/ independent life experience, aged over 21 seem to be the cohort most likely to succeed...but then, a graduate who held down a job whilst in uni, would probably have the statistical advantage for being both selected and trained.

    Whilst AIB certainly don't favour graduates, I've certainly heard members of the board state that on average graduates are more likely to pass initial selection.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JWJ

    JWJ Venerated Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Posts:
    782
    App Stage:
    Passed PRMC
    Just to add my own (probably irrelevant and unnoteworthy) take on things;

    I elected to go to college and study a BTEC rather than A-Levels, as I didn't enjoy school at all, I hated academic work and I knew I wanted to go into the forces and the forces alone. I did a BTEC in Public Services, with no thought about how it would lead to further education, as I didn't consider it a path I was interested in. I worked throughout college, at a McDonalds restaurant among a few others, and thoroughly enjoyed my time there. I spent the summer backpacking around North America with the money I saved from working over the previous two years, and on return had a week or two to relax before starting RT at Lympstone.

    During RT, I was faced with the reality that I was not mature, and I was still really a child in a lot of ways. My character really wasn't developed and certainly not suited for the rigours of RT. I was subsequently injured and discharged on medical grounds. Instead of sinking into the very attractive pit of self-pity and comfort of giving up, I decided to apply for university - largely on the idea of "I don't know what else to do with myself". To my surprise (and part horror), I was quickly given an unconditional offer.

    Having now completed my first term at university, I can safely say this has been the best decision of my life (if my first term is representative of the coming 2 and a half years). Having the experience both of training, and working for two years, I am starting from a better position than most of my peers and find it easier to be confident, relaxed and enjoy things. I am able to pretty much observe my character, personality and all-round confidence improve as the weeks go by, and as an added bonus, have plenty of time to train physically in the gym and get involved in buckets of sports teams/societies. When (if) I graduate in 2023, I will be in the best position possible to rejoin and reattempt Lympstone - physically, mentally and personally. In addition, I will hopefully have a good degree classification should the worst happen and I find myself being injured again.

    Whats the take away from my experience? Don't just think of "what is the minimum to get in the door". Look at yourself and evaluate how you fit through that door. Just because university is not a requirement, thats not to say its not the best path for you in terms of personal development. That being said, if you do go to uni, and just do the bare minimum involvement with your course, and perhaps a few social societies, you won't get much out of it. The 3 years of study offer you a chance to refine your character, mentality and physicality, as well as gain a degree. Is that degree worth the price and time? I can't tell you that but it does unlock doors in the future.

    Don't just automatically reject the idea of uni, give it some solid thought. It is nothing like school, I can't say how much I hated secondary school, but I am really enjoying myself here. Whether thats just due to age and 'maturity', who knows. But be informed about your options and spend some time thinking it over and being critical with yourself.

    (edit: why is it so much easier to ramble 500 words here than it is to crack on with an essay :( )
     
    • Like Like x 8
  20. blacky

    blacky Valuable Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Posts:
    292
    That seems a very high wastage for the YO batch. Only 50% passed out of training?

    Normally they have a much higher pass out rate. Does anyone know of any reason why it was so low?

    I understand recruit troops this would be normal however with only one intake per year I’m surprised the pass out rate for the batch was 50%. Did they get back batched , injured or how many left training?