Dismiss Notice
'Users of this forum are reminded they should not discuss performance of individual attendees at PRMC or in Recruit Training for PERsonal SECurity and in observance of Diversity & Inclusion legislation'.

Featured Specialist Qualification - getting pinged

Discussion in 'General Royal Marines Joining Chit Chat' started by Atlas10, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Posts:
    6,797
    Very interesting. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Seen Seen x 1
  2. Louise

    Louise Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Posts:
    266
    As a parent I have heard about some of the difficulties/frustrations - acting up repeatly and not getting on JCC despite annual PDR recommending it, not been able to take up Uni course due to service piorities, the time at a boring job pre getting an SQ oppotunity, the volume of work . Welcome to life in the public services and real life. But along with all of the negative I don't know of many other jobs that provide such quality training ( all the driving licences including oil tanker, 240 credits to a degree) in paid work time , cheap skiing holidays and adeventure training in work time , visits to 16 different countries in a year ( some with work and otheres made possible by the amount of time off and earnings with non existent rent costs) . What I see in my RM is someone who works hard and plays hard in a unique job that won't suit forever but will provide a solid foundation of skills for future oppotunities.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Nailed It Nailed It x 2
    • Seen Seen x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Bluebear

    Bluebear Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Posts:
    408
    App Stage:
    Parent
    I have read through this thread with great interest and I have to admit to sitting on the fence!

    There are obviously 2 sides to this complex story. I do have an insight as know several RM's who has experienced a great deal of things similar to those mentioned by ave!; also, such things as turning up at 8am, sitting for hours while someone in the hierarchy eventually turns up and tells you to come back 3 hours later. Being told you are off on an excursion abroad only to find out at the last minute that it has been cancelled, being an intelligent individual and being expected to show no initiative. I have to say, if you were to treat people in a similar way in some other walks of life you would not maintain your employment for very long.....what sort of companies can afford such a wastage of time of man hours, time in the real world is money. It would seem there are wise words spoken aplenty from many on this thread but there must perhaps be a middle way and from one on the outside; it would seem that an anarchic system needs a bit of an update. If the Marines themselves are unable to effect any change, why are those above them not planning for a more comprehensive and workmanlike system?

    It seems that rather than a meritocracy being brought to bear there is more of the "luck of the draw", right place right time in terms of the SQ's available. It also 'appears' that highly trained elite individuals may not even be ready if the worst eventualities were to happen.

    On the other side of the coin, agree that the grass is rarely greener and for many, the opportunities outweigh the negatives. There seems to be such a variation of experience that it would seem hard to draw a coherent outcome.

    Confused myself!:confused:
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Seen Seen x 2
  4. ave!

    ave! Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    Posts:
    177
    I’ll put my glasses on next time I observe the RAF @Ninja_Stoker !
     
    • Hoofin Hoofin x 2
  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    33,516
    One of the things that does stand out from this thread is the effect of the change in tempo from recruit training to daily life in the Corps.

    During training there's seldom time to get bored and reflect, the tempo is relentless, the days are full, structured, physically & mentally intense for prolonged periods. After Kings Squad, the tempo eases back considerably. The conditioning from Recruit Training delivers a combat ready commando, possibly expecting more adventure than is readily available. They'll then turn their attention to advancing their career, aiming to acquire various skills through courses and/or hopefully promotion. Trouble is, it's a numbers game and things never happen fast enough. To a young person, the prospect of a two+ year wait to get a desirable course is a lifetime away.

    With regard the organisational side of life, it's never going to be as structured as recruit training and life in the armed forces, whatever the arm, is going to be unpredictable. Very often the plan will change due to outside factors including world events. It's often difficult to make the link between having leave, courses or AT cancelled because your company has been earmarked as a deployable contingency in case things get out of hand in an unknown, developing overseas insurgency for example. Nine times out of ten, nothing will come of it & all you'll feel is disappointment.

    Couple all the above with the fact, as a Marine, you can find your 'superiors' are younger & less academically qualified or as operationally experienced as yourself, then it isn't hard to understand why people get hacked-off and disillusioned when things aren't happening as they would wish.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 1
  6. Thomo

    Thomo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Posts:
    32
    Maybe the way ahead is to choose your SQ before joining or whilst in recruit training, same as Navy. That way, you will know how long the wait is.
     
    • Disagree. Disagree. x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Posts:
    6,797
    An interesting idea. But I believe some RN branches have had a three-year-wait. Happy to be corrected. If implemented RM recruitment might really fall off the cliff.

    Is it fair to suggest that the Royal Marines could not function without the 'ping'?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Jaykay2343

    Jaykay2343 Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Posts:
    449
    App Stage:
    Passed PJFT
    In terms of civilian and RM life.

    Regardless of whether I work 24 hours or 1 hour of that day I still get paid. Although it is boring at times, turning upto work for an hours kick about or a few miles troop run then getting the rest of the day off is not bad at all. I am still getting paid. Same with Fridays, the majority of them I am home by Thursday evening so get 3 day weekends often. Again I still get paid. Same with Mondays, if I do work them I turn up at 1400. Not many jobs will give you regularly Monday mornings off, and Fridays off with a half day Wednesday.

    People will drip hard when they , for example, get a job on a building site. Sitting in traffic jams every morning, commuting, hard graft all day every day. But hey!! At least you get to finish an hour early on a Friday.

    Or turn up on a Thursday to be told the delivery for all the gear and materials won't turn up until Monday. So go home. As you are on zero hours/self employed, you will not be getting paid for it.

    Life can be mundane on camp at unit... but it can get a hell of a lot worse.
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Seen Seen x 1
    • Nailed It Nailed It x 1
  9. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,104
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    Nah, there’s been an increase in local adverts for rejoiners for the RAF, I think they are suffering too but to a far less degree than the rest of the Forces.
     
  10. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,104
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    Before the whole SQ thing, General duties Marine was a thing, and then they changed it and suddenly everyone had to “bring something to the party”.

    There was rumour of bringing back the GD role but with manning in current state of affairs, it will never happen.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,104
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet

    Again, this and all the other posts about AT, various positives about civilian employment, it’s all subjective.

    The Forces has a huge aspect of luck, right place, right time and a decent chain of command by luck of the draw.

    Yea there’s adventure training, yea there’s perks, but it’s not always available and the Corps/military doesn’t always stay true to its word.

    Same with civvie jobs, however the difference is, I can vote with my feet easier on a civilian job than the Forces.
    Plus you can negotiate, you have protection and the opportunity to challenge and improve your situation. The employer is bound by a lot more regulations and employment law that protects the employee, which is a right that a subject of Her Majesties Forces will never see.

    I seem to remember stories from a long time ago about financial or leave based incentives, which seem to have dropped off the radar. The equivalent of Overtime almost. Could this be an idea to help retention?


    The civvie world isn’t all zero hours, doom and gloom, and crap wages. There’s many different industries to get stuck into. Employers might not offer an AT package, but they could offer a work flow, routine and wage that could mean a better quality of life.

    The grass isn’t always greener, but there’s more to life than a green suit.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. ave!

    ave! Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    Posts:
    177
    Without giving the game away or compromising me;

    There have been occurrences within the corps that , had I been in civvie street ; my notice would have been handed in on the spot and I would have walked with my head high.

    @ThreadpigeonsAlpha is correct and the corps seems to foster the doom and gloom attitude to the civilian world. The corps made me believe I can do anything so when I leave I’m not worried at all.

    Seems strange because the calibre of man in the corps doesn’t respond well to being told that he will fail or struggle or can’t do something. But the corps only changes every 30 years I’ve been told so I guess we are still in the 1980/90 attitude right now from our superiors
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 2
  13. Bootra

    Bootra Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Posts:
    193
    This has been an interesting read!
    Most of the drips lads have are the same as they always have been. It doesn’t mean that the issues shouldn’t be addressed, but boredom and being ‘seen off’ are sadly part of military life. The Corps’ admin is up it’s hoop and needs completely overhauling.
    The things that really impact these days are pensions, Ops, and the dreaded ping.
    Back in the day we didn’t really think about the pension. It’s great that these days lads are thinking of their futures more. I can fully understand why there is concern over the new pension and why lads will leave to take up another, better paid, career.
    Ops have always been a big thing. You join the Corps wanting to do the job you train for. When I joined we at least had Banner. Some lads got out to the Balkans, but most of us were on standby for years and never got there. Lads got threaders and usually between the 6-9 year point had put their chits in and were gone. Nowadays with Telic and Herrick gone we’re in the same boat. There are a few Ops kicking about, but you have to be certain ranks, SQ’s or in the right place.
    The Ping has always been there, but the big change is the time frame. Back in the day if you weren’t pinged straight from training you knew you had a few years before it was likely to happen. I had 3 brilliant years in a fighting company, but then took the initiative and put in for HW. Lads don’t have that luxury now. That is a massive failure on the Corps’ part. And sadly it’s not going to change unless they implement something like Ninja suggested earlier in the thread.
    Education is the key. Let lads/lasses know from the recruiting stage what the reality is. I know that people like Ninja would be doing that, but I guarantee in other AFCO’s they lie through their teeth! But on PRMC’s and into training if the lads/lasses are told what’s ahead then they can prepare, and make informed decisions. Sadly it’s a numbers game and they just want to get people through the gates.
    Here’s the thing though. Lads drip about the Corps all the time, always have, always will. It’s part of what makes a Bootneck. But very few actually regret joining. If someone is on the fence about joining the Corps then telling them about the ‘bad’ stuff will maybe put them off. However if being a Royal Marines Commando is the dream then it won’t stop them. That’s the reality, the pull of the green lid is just too strong.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Gen Dit Gen Dit x 3
    • Nailed It Nailed It x 2
  14. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,104
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    Absolutely bang on the money.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Hyperhippo

    Hyperhippo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    579
    App Stage:
    Joining other service
    18504627-576F-4178-8D33-56EE5058CE64.jpeg Came across this and wasn’t sure where to post it, here seems appropriate enough

    Is this gen? What sort of posting would this be would a Royal Marine be a section commander at ITC Catterick?
     
  16. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    4,104
    App Stage:
    Not Applied Yet
    I don’t know. But I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
     
    • Hoofin Hoofin x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Xerath

    Xerath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Posts:
    2,095
    Highly doubt they'd be in a section commander's role. Platoon Sgt/Commander maybe?
     
  18. dodgyknees

    dodgyknees Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Posts:
    294
    App Stage:
    Parent
    We have bags of RM billets in the Army. Everything from ITC to Sandhurst so nothing unusual with this photo. He could be anything from a phase 1 instructor, through spec qual instructor to SCBC/PCBC. The school of inf has a really wide remit so can’t narrow it down any more than that.
     
  19. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Posts:
    33,516
    Similarly, you'll see the odd US Marine, Dutch Marine and Para in training staff posts at CTC.

    Apparently we're all on the "same side". For now, anyway.
     
  20. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Posts:
    3,931
    And even at one stage RAF Regt!:(

    Alan
     
    • Hoofin Hoofin x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Gucci Info Gucci Info x 1