Split - BLM and Sex Preferences thread

Johnny_Anonie

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Bang on.

A defendant who pleads guilty at the first available opportunity will usually be “awarded” a 1/3 credit (one-third off the sentence). This slides down the scale to just 10% on the day of trial.

If credit was a cake they could end up with just a crumb as opposed to a slice if they play the long game. I like to think experienced judges know legal aid chancers when they see one.
 

Chelonian

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An example of this is the use of “gay” as an insult. Currently, my partner is in training and he has told me that there is a culture of throwing around gay with negative connotations by the recruits and even some of the training team, despite ironically having lectures early on in training against discrimination.
It shouldn't happen. It's plain lazy. Plenty of other inventive ways of deploying banter without demeaning protected groups.
 

CallMeLucifer

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is the use of “gay” as an insult. Currently, my partner is in training and he has told me that there is a culture of throwing around gay with negative connotations

You and your partner must be one of the few people that are actually offended by the use of that, or the use of 'f@ggot' despite nearly everyone else in the community using it often. And why not? It rolls off the tongue beautifully.
 

GreyWing

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or the use of 'f@ggot' despite nearly everyone else in the community using it often
It's a weird one, it's not a word I'd feel comfortable using to be honest. Maybe it's just a word that from my generation was issued with a lot of malice when it was said.

Who gets to decide what language means, and at what point it means what they think it means?
 

CallMeLucifer

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It's a weird one, it's not a word I'd feel comfortable using to be honest. Maybe it's just a word that from my generation was issued with a lot of malice when it was said.

Who gets to decide what language means, and at what point it means what they think it means?

Words are as offensive as you make them. Personally, I'm of the belief in that 'offence is taken, not given'.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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But that suggests that there is no such thing as being deliberately offensive. People have every right to make deliberately offensive statements, but I don't think it gets them to any place worth going.
Agreed. I’m all for free speech, and provocative, but to be offensive for offensives sake won’t do anything, just be prepared for incoming after..
 

its_meg

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Bang on.

A defendant who pleads guilty at the first available opportunity will usually be “awarded” a 1/3 credit (one-third off the sentence). This slides down the scale to just 10% on the day of trial.

If credit was a cake they could end up with just a crumb as opposed to a slice if they play the long game. I like to think experienced judges know legal aid chancers when they see one.
On a similar note people seem to go to crown court to extend the court date in hopes the victim (if relevant and not able to progress without victim) does not want to turn up at court as its 'too much hassle' and it then gets dropped.
 

thirdtry

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@Rob20 is bang on about this country not harbouring any true oppression compared to elsewhere.

I've been fortunate enough between being in RT and rejoining now, to have spent 5 years working in remote areas worldwide. Whilst not in conflict areas I've been to considerably more wacky places than the average "gap year" traveller, such as very deprived parts of Kenya and Tanzania, the Middle East, parts of Indonesia and Malaysia with real sharia law stuff going on, and some of my friends and former colleagues that I lived with for prolonged periods and swapped stories and life experiences are from countries like Burma (they insist on this name not Myanmar) and The Philippines (this all caused a nuisance at Security Clearance this time but that's a separate conversation and been passed now!).

Having met people in arranged marriages, been friends with so many people with zero access to basic healthcare, been friends with people who've found themselves displaced sometimes by conflict but also sometimes due to race or political stance, met a woman in Kenya that stands for true feminism and walks 20 miles a day to deliver books to teenage girls because they're otherwise destined just to be vessels for pregnancy and homemaking etc etc, it absolutely blows my mind that anyone in the UK has the sheer audacity to believe they're oppressed. Actually - I'll clarify that - there is certainly oppression still happening behind the closed doors of certain cultures here (not just fundamental Muslims but amongst Travelers etc too) but it's not widespread and if you honestly think you're somehow oppressed when you've got an education, got a job in a country with a National Minimum Wage by law, a country where as I'm sure @Johnny_Anonie can attest we have a police force who WILL listen to you if you report something, regardless of your race/gender/sexuality etc (perhaps even more seriously if the crime is based on any of those things!) then in all honesty you're delusional.

The irony also seems totally lost on a lot of people too that all these strong anti-society opinions are most often formed whilst, or as a result of, studying at University in a nation with some of the best unis on earth, and for all intents and purposes for free (I know l, as a graduate, that we do 'pay' it back but realistically we never actually feel the financial effects of the £50k debt and most people outside of top earners will never actually pay back the full amount).

I could go on and on but I think that'll do for now.
 

CallMeLucifer

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The irony also seems totally lost on a lot of people too that all these strong anti-society opinions are most often formed whilst, or as a result of, studying at University

And these enraged students that you see trailblazing these movements about inequality and discrimination tend to be white. They, ironically, feel the need to speak on behalf of others.
 

thirdtry

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And these enraged students that you see trailblazing these movements about inequality and discrimination tend to be white. They, ironically, feel the need to speak on behalf of others.

Whilst it seems to trend that way I'm not going to totally dive into that. I try to only air opinions online or in person once I've had chance to really gather as much information as I can, ideally from personal experience (including the counter arguments). Without having access to the brains of every white or black person with a stake in the argument I can't honestly say.

Admittedly though there is a lot of virtue signaling these days and there's definitely a very loud number of people in our generation that feel the need to get quite vocal about things regardless of whether it affects them, and often will not change or question their stance even once new information is provided.



The media is just as much to blame as vocal individuals though. A good example - I once spent a few days hanging out in Sri Lanka (a country with its own host of absolutely wild scandals once you get under its skin) with a press photographer that worked worldwide for AP, Reuters etc etc as a freelancer and spent his downtime just surfing and partying on the island. His line, on the subject of press impartiality, was "if I go to Israel I can sell photos of the exact same riot to both the Israeli press and the Arab press. All I have to do is capture every little, unique, moment looking both ways. The injured Israeli conscript hit by a molotov cocktail could get me a few grand in the Jewish press, but if I turn 180° and capture one of a Palestinian teenager being beaten by 4 Israeli troops I've suddenly got a few grand coming my way from across the Arab media. Where I point my camera changes the entire narrative. Too many people in society now take sides rather than trying to observe every unique moment".

That rough quote of our conversation has pretty much guided every opinion I've ever made since and I think more young Brits need to hear it to be honest.
 

GreyWing

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And these enraged students that you see trailblazing these movements about inequality and discrimination tend to be white. They, ironically, feel the need to speak on behalf of others.
At some point, they'll see that they have been used. They are 50k in debt by the end of what in most cases would be a worthless qualification - I think they've been punished enough for being young and naïve. Hopefully when they grow older, they turn on those that exploited them. Every revolution eats its own.
 

Chelonian

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They, ironically, feel the need to speak on behalf of others.
In the 1970s the terrorist Baader–Meinhof Group (Red Army Faction) originated from a Marxist student movement which purported to support the allegedly oppressed proletariat.

Most of the RAF came from privileged, middle class backgrounds. Meanwhile the true proletariat were too busy earning a living and putting food on the tables of their families to engage in self-indulgent class struggles.

Students can be annoying but idealism is a rite of passage on the path to being a grown up adult and having to compromise many values, so I try not to be too harsh.
 

CallMeLucifer

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In the 1970s the terrorist Baader–Meinhof Group (Red Army Faction) originated from a Marxist student movement which purported to support the allegedly oppressed proletariat.

Most of the RAF came from privileged, middle class backgrounds. Meanwhile the true proletariat were too busy earning a living and putting food on the tables of their families to engage in self-indulgent class struggles.

Students can be annoying but idealism is a rite of passage on the path to being a grown up adult and having to compromise many values so I try not to be too harsh.

Oh I'm well aware of Kommando Baader-Meinhoff and other such groups. My granddad told me they use to throw things like flares and such in the road to disrupt British convoys. I know that's their least heinous offence, of course.
 

CallMeLucifer

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At some point, they'll see that they have been used. They are 50k in debt by the end of what in most cases would be a worthless qualification - I think they've been punished enough for being young and naïve. Hopefully when they grow older, they turn on those that exploited them. Every revolution eats its own.

That reminds me of that quote regarding the Bolshevik revolution. "we'll hang them with the rope we sold them".
 

D47M0R

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The left does seem to suck at messaging! I think a more accurate tag would’ve been “Black Lives Matter Too” - which I think would’ve been more understandable after seeing the frequency of questionable police shootings on camera at that time.

Also on that note “defund the police” instantly switches so many people off of what I think is a reasonable idea of spending less on getting the police military equipment, and more on mental health schemes/practitioners that help police departments who don’t seem to be fully equipped for mental health calls
There is definitely an irony in calling for the police to be "defunded" while partaking in violent riots and looting - actions that are more likely to make people feel unsafe, and therefore want more police activity.

The whole idea they had of replacing the police with "community projects" etc. seemed very detached from the reality they were creating.

There is also a problem with any messaging isolating any group as separate from the rest of society, as it creates an "othering" effect to that particular group of people. As an example - if we taught all children that they are not allowed to include Sikhs in jokes... would they ever see Sikhs as truly part of society? Or would they see them as some separate group and "different".

There is also doubt about if the police shootings etc are disproportionate. If you look at statistics you'll see that FBI data shows that for every 10,000 black Americans arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed, yet for every 10,000 white Americans arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed.

Also an American police officer is about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by a black person than to kill a black male.

This goes up to 18 times more likely if you discount armed black males killed.

In 2019 (FBI data again) black people made up 55.9% of known murder offenders whereas white people make up 44.1%. As black people make up 13.4% of the US population and total white population being 77% (incl. Hispanics and Latinos as data does). So divide 55.9/13.4 = 4.2 44.1/77 = 0.57.

4.2/0.57 = 7.4 times over representation of black people in murder offender statistics

This goes down to 39.6% for black people and 29.1% for white people if you include unknown offenders into the total. But as these are unknown you cannot include them. However the ratio will actually be higher due to percentage changes. 39.6/13.4 = 2.96 29.1/77 = 0.38

2.96/0.38 = 7.8

In recent years it seems to have become a trend to be "oppressed" and "protests" seem to become scapegoats for selfishness and looting. While many people for some reason support all this (perhaps out of fear of being called racist?) when if you actually look at figures you'll see they struggle to support the narrative (unless you bend them like the media does).

While I'm not saying systems are perfect... always remember that the media's job is not to inform us. It is to sell a story.

I also think tearing down statues is pointless. Those people in their age were deemed worthy of that honour. Why should we take it away due to the judgements of our times?

Bit of a ramble. But that's my two cents. Lots of people have already stated UK figures so didn't bother with those.

P.S. Remember! Nelson was missing an arm! So if you take his statue down... you're being ableist! ;)
 

Vine

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Just an add on from this, the reason I included this is because there is a slur for every minority group wether that be for race or sexuality, but not a single one against white people, or straight people. The fact that this is the case shows that not all racial groups are equal in society, as there are words that can be used against black people or asians (and other ethnic minorities) that carry years and years of history of discrimination and hatred, and the lack of slurs against white people or straight people shows that they have never been discriminated against (in the western world) like other minorities have been and continue to be discriminated against
No slur for white people ? You sure ? What about cracker ? Chicken nugget etc. The problem isn’t colour it’s class. All these things that “only happen to people of colour” happened to me and justifiably so. Stop and searched age 12 why you ask ? Because I lived in a poor area with high youth crime they ain’t stop and searching little Sebastian in downtown Chelsea it’s because of the area you are in not the colour of your skin. People have used slurs against you ? Try being Scottish living in England and you’re accent is mocked daily openly been called all sorts ie porridge wog, sweaty sock in the workplace etc etc. (Not that anything like that bothers me I see it as banter but imagine I was black and called that). Tell me exactly what it is that happens to anyone of colour that doesn’t happen to anyone who’s white in this country ? This goes for so many people as well the scousers are always being called thiefs or the southerns being called soft. Everyone is a minority when you break it down and everyone is stereotyped one way or another. All these things do is divide us more when in reality as a people we have never been closer.
 

HotelBravoMike

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Try being Scottish living in England and you’re accent is mocked daily openly been called all sorts ie porridge wog, sweaty sock in the workplace etc etc. (Not that anything like that bothers me I see it as banter but imagine I was black and called that).

Can absolutely confirm about being Scottish in England. The amount of times I’ve heard “awch aye the nooooo” or asked my opinion on haggis. As for racial slurs, I worked for the better part of a year behind a city centre bar and I’ve never once heard one been used in vain against and ethnic minority but I have countless times heard and been at the end of racially motivated abuse from children, teenagers and adults from an ethnic background.
 

ThreadpigeonsAlpha

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Can absolutely confirm about being Scottish in England. The amount of times I’ve heard “awch aye the nooooo” or asked my opinion on haggis. As for racial slurs, I worked for the better part of a year behind a city centre bar and I’ve never once heard one been used in vain against and ethnic minority but I have countless times heard and been at the end of racially motivated abuse from children, teenagers and adults from an ethnic background.
It’s worse for English in Scotland. There’s huge undertones of anti-English sentiments from the SNP, their supporters and a lot of fellow Scottish people are downright disgustingly rude to anyone with an English accent, even if you are Scottish, or Welsh.

The independence referendum was a breeding ground for anti-English statements, with such things as “ship them back” “separate passports” and my personal favourite: “make them wear a badge to mark them out”.
Not to mention cars and property with union jacks defaced and destroyed, vandalised and groups of SNP supporters roaming the polling stations to intimidate people.
 

J9R4W

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Whilst we're on the accent banter - I'm from deepest darkest Bristol (as is my entire family - most of them from council estates) and I have what I now know is a really strong accent. I've been told I sound like a farmer/pirate/village idiot etc., I actually don't mind it as I agree that to people anywhere else in the country it is a really odd accent. But like other accents it does make you stand out, and a Bristol accent especially makes you seem stupid or backwards/uneducated which is the case regardless of race. My point is that I agree that much of the issues around race actually come down to issues to do with class, and perceptions of regional accents and class.
 

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