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STANDARDS.

Discussion in 'Jollies Bar' started by Rover, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    Probably the reason why most of us have bad backs, knees and ankles. This a phot of a US soldier, but it's similar scenario for the UK.

    83682673_860357391078114_1751298186531569664_o.jpg
     
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  2. johnnyaged5

    johnnyaged5 Royal Marines Commando

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    I wish the oppo i had on bottom field weighed 140Ibs!!
     
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  3. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Whoa whoa whoa?

    Even the challenges at straight point ranges?

    I remember legging it up and down that hill and getting soaking and legging it back up a few times.

    That’s like a right of passage.
     
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  4. johnnyaged5

    johnnyaged5 Royal Marines Commando

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    The ol' 7 minute challenge?
    Worst 'extra phys' of my life at straightpoint.
     
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  5. Trooper149

    Trooper149 Valuable Contributor

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    What other changes to the standards in RM training can we expect?

    A few of my uncles friends who were ex RM were saying that RM training used to be a 1 shot deal I.e. if you failed a test, you got no reattempts. Hunter company sounded a bit alien to them.

    You can't help but wonder how the training compares to how it has been in the past.
     
  6. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Yeah, I also remember the so-called good old days of Esso Five Star petrol. :)

    Maximising return on investment, i.e. fixing broken Recruits is just plain good sense; economically and strategically.
     
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  7. ThreadpigeonsAlpha

    ThreadpigeonsAlpha Royal Marines Commando

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    Hunter isn’t just for failures, it’s rehab for injuries.

    I have no problem with lads being back trooped for failures. As long as they learn from it and crack on. I don’t agree with that mentality of 1 strike and you are out. It’s a steep learning curve from civvie street.

    I’ve got some good mates that went through hunter and they are damn good Marines.

    And to be injured and rehabbed in hunter and go back and do it again, is a good show of resilience.
     
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  8. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    The logic nowadays is to train to pass rather than boast a high fail rate.

    Measures introduced not only include physical rehabilitation but also psychological (aka the "Nod Whisperer", the "reality of combat", Finch Troop, Bamford Troop, etc). Similarly, there's Project Regain for trained ranks together with TRiM training.

    Entry criteria is in permanent flux to minimise risk of injury and maximise output from training.

    The Service stopped using live rounds during training serials for reasons blindingly obvious today, but maybe not so obvious at the time.
     
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  9. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    Don't know how old your Uncle's friends are, but CTC has been doing commando training for the last 60 years and they have always had a rehab troop. Don't know about it when it was done at Bickleigh or Achnacarry

    Before Hunter it was Chosin, (named after a famous battle in Korea) and before that it was called Sick Squad, shortened to S Squad and then unfortunately known as Spastic Squad.

    Re-runs for test failures, to my knowledge, have always been done. I failed the Endurance Course, but passed the re-run that same afternoon. Also, a guy in my original troop failed his 30 miler, passed the re-run and then in later service, went onto pass selection for the SBS.

    With regard to the question about how hard training was "back then", to how it is now, I personally feel that it is harder now.

    It's harder to join, with specific weight and height limitations. PJFT and PRMC was not there and although training was, at one point longer at 9 months, there was no criteria about having to re-do most of the Commando Course, including Final Ex, if you failed any of the four tests twice. That must be an absolute killer for a recruit to get his head round.

    Alan
     
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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  10. Trooper149

    Trooper149 Valuable Contributor

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    It does seem that the application process now is much longer than how it used to be. Young guys used to be able to join up in a fairly rapid time frame, where now it is an 8-12 month process. Obviously it is because, as mentioned they have a duty of care and to ensure that the people who can actually manage the training are put forward.

    Purely speculating, but is it also partly because they want to ensure that candidates genuinely do what to do the training, and so they increase the wait time,etc? Can imagine with the internet these days, the recruiters get alot of guys thinking they are going to be a boy solider who joins the SBS. While in the moment they are all amped up, they can't keep the patience in the long run.
     
  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    From memory, this is one personal experience from 'back in the day':

    As one who enlisted in the Army in the 1970s the social-political environment was very different. A significant number of people joined the Army because of general unemployment elsewhere. And the Army was much larger than it is today and desperate for personnel; arguably, this is an important factor.

    If an adult candidate simply 'wanted to join the Army' he or she would first be sent to a selection centre at Sutton Coldfield. The candidates' suitability for role would be assessed and they would be allocated a job within the Army. The biggest factor in job allocation was almost certainly the manning shortfall in any particular branch.

    If the candidate was already committed to a particular career path and the Army Careers Office supported the application for, say, Parachute Regiment the candidate would sit a Recruit Test and have a medical examination (my own was actually done at the ACO in Exeter). Joining instructions and rail travel warrants would then be issued. From first walking into an ACO to starting at Depot Para might perhaps take only four months.

    A fair number of Other Rank candidates aged between 15 and 17 years would start in Junior Parachute Company and perhaps complete a couple of terms before moving across into Recruit Company.

    PRAC had not been invented. About 50% of candidates completed Recruit Training which was then 22 weeks in duration and included four weeks on a Basic Parachute Course.

    From a 2020 perspective as long as the finished product—a Trained Rank—emerges from RT with the capacity to perform in the required role the mechanism of how that is achieved is perhaps unimportant.
     
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  12. Major_Disaster

    Major_Disaster Member

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    Another big challenge for recruits seems to be the medical standards. The Forces have set stringent standards on peoples height, weight, medical conditions and medicine taken to ensure that when applying to join, only physically fit people can get in. That's fine if you have high recruiting levels, but when you are 8000 undermanned, it is maybe time to have a think?
    The argument is what happens if a Marine with Condition X or Condition Y is on operations and their condition flares up and they cannot do their job? Is it the thin end of the wedge that may end up getting someone killed?

    There is a strong logic that if you are applying to be an infanteer, you want to recruit someone able to withstand a punishing physical fitness training programme and be in excellent physical condition. But if you are recruiting an engineer, or an intelligence analyst, then do they need to meet the same standards?
     
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  13. SCOTTY6

    SCOTTY6 Royal Marines Commando

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    No its got bugger all to do with testing a potential recruits commitment, that’s why we have that PRMC thing. it’s because the recruitment process is for the most part done by old matelots and then we have that absolute cake and party known as capita.
     
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  14. Major_Disaster

    Major_Disaster Member

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  15. Apex

    Apex Former RM Commando

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    Trooper just focus on not wrapping when you get to CTC. Knuckle down and give it your all. Remember we have two ears and one mouth for a reason young man. The "Old & Bold" don’t tend to enjoy cocky youngsters trying it on with people who have been there and done it.
    You will learn That Green Lid is earned by Blood Sweat and Tears. Not by "Being Clever" on a web site such as this one. This ain't a warning this is just a polite hint. Get SF out of your noggin’ until you’ve at least two years smashed out. Best of luck to you lad. I’ll go back to reading rather than posting.
     
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  16. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Respectful, robust debate is encouraged.

    No such thing as daft questions here. Although admittedly some come close to being so. :confused:

    One of the good things about the forum is that anyone's opinion might be queried or challenged. Admittedly this might occasionally cause irritation but if one can't do it here then where else?
     
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  17. Trooper149

    Trooper149 Valuable Contributor

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    You obviously do you research. :) 3 years has given me a lot of time to observe and think about the RM while I have set out on other things. All I can say is I learn from experience and offer what I can to the next guy.
     
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  18. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    As a matter of interest, in those three years, do you feel you are closer to joining the Armed Forces or less likely to do so?

    The average pipeline from submitting an application to commencing recruit training actually averages 11 months at present.

    The thing to consider is that everyone joining for the first time has 6 months to decide whether to continue or wrap.

    Better to try than regret not trying & regretting not finding out. You have life experience, granted but what advice do you have to offer those joining?
     
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  19. Apex

    Apex Former RM Commando

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    You proclaimed last year of your dream to join a PMC after a spell in Special Forces. The more I read from you the more you grow on me. I was slightly gobby like you prior to joining. There is absolutely nothing wrong with self confidence you’ve just got to be careful it doesn’t come across as arrogance. I’m sorry for the ribbing and jokes aside I do really wish you the best for CTC.
    Just be aware that you will look really silly if your NCOs read about your SF dreams and you later wrap the second you get homesick or wet in the field lad. Top tip from an old fart, Just tell everyone you want to be a good Royal, then listen to, and learn as much as possible from your NCOs. Watch how your TT carry themselves, try and aspire to be like them.Nods have always had a tendency to do things which make life really hard for themselves.
    Congratulations on passing a PRMC. Even getting to recruit training these days is not lightly earned, but now comes the hard bit.
    As tempting as it may be to act hard, don't. Remember when talking to serving or ex Royal Marines You're not 'one of the lads', and one of the ways you make this evident is how you express yourself. Be humble. You’ll hopefully get there one day but don’t get ahead of yourself. We were all clueless recruits in a fluster once. Use this preparation time to train and seek regular advice from serving lads, even if you think you don't need it. Keep a strong sense of cheerfulness at all times, it’s a vital element of the commando spirit. But above all else have fun with it. Youth is wasted on the young. Soak it all up and best of luck, my next birthday is the big seven- O and I’m still a corse as wire wool Royal. So head down, ears open and good luck lad.

    Yours Aye,

    Pete.
     
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  20. Trooper149

    Trooper149 Valuable Contributor

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    Many thanks Pete, appreciate the advice.
     
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