Transfer from RMR Trained Ranks to regular RM

[reacher89]

I know last year it changed so that trained ranks in the RMR could seamlessly transfer to regular Royal Marines, is this still the case?

And if so what are the restrictions? Would one have to be below the maximum age limit to transfer (I’ll be 32 by the time I start RMR training)?

Is this only for enlisted ranks as well? What if I earnt a commission in the RMR, could I then transfer to regular RM as an officer?

 

[SCOTTY6]

Hopefully someone with better insight will be along to give you the gen. As far as I’m aware you can transfer after being mobilised For a while, a mate of mine did it.

And I’m not sure about the commissioning but it’s very rare for RMR to pick up a Corps Commission I believe.

 

[reacher89]

Why would you do reserve training then try and transfer to regular?
My personal opinion I hope that this isn't allowed. The RMR ranks I have worked with have been well below standard and lacking a lot of training. It is to be expected as they have not had as many hours put into them than regulars.

To be honest I was only really thinking of this as a potential route into the regular services as an officer, as I’m too old to apply the traditional way.

 

[Aerial]

Why would you do reserve training then try and transfer to regular?
My personal opinion I hope that this isn't allowed. The RMR ranks I have worked with have been well below standard and lacking a lot of training. It is to be expected as they have not had as many hours put into them than regulars.

That is disappointing to hear as an RMR nod.

I can see why skill fade and relevancy would be more a problem with RMR ranks who have been in for a while. There should be nothing wrong with any RMR rank’s initial training since the criteria tests are all identical and to the same standard as regulars.

Maybe put them on a conversion course or retake the RFCC or AACC instead of an automatic transfer is a better option?

It’s a waste of time and money for all concerned to send a trained RMR rank all the way back to day one week one if they want to transfer, but standards need to be upheld.

 

[Kingsman]

Why would you do reserve training then try and transfer to regular?
My personal opinion I hope that this isn't allowed. The RMR ranks I have worked with have been well below standard and lacking a lot of training. It is to be expected as they have not had as many hours put into them than regulars.

That’s worrying; in what way we’re they below standard? Was it just initially and did they get up to speed quickly or not? Had they just passed out or were they in for quite a while?

 

[Grey man]

That’s worrying; in what way we’re they below standard? Was it just initially and did they get up to speed quickly or not? Had they just passed out or were they in for quite a while?

In my experience the RMR are not looked down on in distain. Despite the ribbing they have high standards for reservists and many have deployed and conducted themselves brilliantly. Are they the same as regulars? No. Will there be pi$$ taking if you get mobilised or do FTRS? Yes.
But then, assuming you are up to scratch, aren’t gobby you will settle in, do the job well and earn your spurs.
A reservist can not possibly reach and maintain the skill sets of a regular in all aspects of the role. A good Det will focus on key skills and try to minimise that gap. Some things you just can’t cover or replicate in routine reserve training, and you will really only get a handle on if mobilised.

Best of luck with training @Aerial keep at it.

 

[Johnny_Anonie]

It is important to bare in mind that regulars who arrive in unit also have to earn the respect of their peers. From passing of the square you fall pretty sharpish back to the bottom of the food chain.
The military is full of hierarchies and you shouldn’t be disheartened. It is designed that way for good reason.

In the Army the fact someone has completed basic training means quite little to those who have also met the minimum standards and subsequently built up skills and experience. It’s all part of the game. I imagine the Corps is much the same.

Head down, ears open and being a good egg with a thick skin won’t see you wrong.

 

[Man of Steel]

This seems quite worrying, although it's still early days for me and I am yet to complete my +VPJFT, we may all get the green lid in the same way (RMR Vs Regs) but where does the gap in skills and knowledge fall? Does it all bubble down to experience from deployment or is it the continuous training aspect?

I was going to ask what our options are through moving up through the ranks as a general duties rifleman? Is this something that can even be considered as a reservist?

 

[Johnny_Anonie]

This seems quite worrying, although it's still early days for me and I am yet to complete my +VPJFT, we may all get the green lid in the same way (RMR Vs Regs) but where does the gap in skills and knowledge fall? Does it all bubble down to experience from deployment or is it the continuous training aspect?

I was going to ask what our options are through moving up through the ranks as a general duties rifleman? Is this something that can even be considered as a reservist?

I fear some are reading into this too much.

The reason for skill gaps between RMR and RM this is that it takes a great deal of time and training to be proficient at most military roles, a Royal Marines Commando definitely being one of them!

If being green is your hobby and you take time away from it, you will inevitably suffer skills fade and need more time in training ahead of an operation to be of any real use.
Arguably in this post HERRICK and FCF world the Reserve occupies a curious place in the structure, but that’s another discussion. End of the day, this isn’t something for you worry about. Focus on you. Do a good job, work hard, enjoy it and don’t cause your chain of command any issues. That’s what matters.

 

[Chelonian]

Skill fade is a reality regardless of Regular or Reserve service. Navigation is a prime example; the more you do it, the better you become. It can't just be learned from a book.

An article in The Globe & Laurel some years ago flagged up the suggestion that Regular ranks brush up on 'green skills' before Junior or Senior Command Courses particularly if their careers had previously had a more technical nature for a few years after RT.

It would be interesting to know if there are specific skills subject to fade which Reserve forces should be aware of.

 

[Johnny_Anonie]

The other one was lazy, unfit and had a shocking attitude..

To be fair I did try and put @ThreadpigeonsAlpha in the taxi the night before but he was having none of it.

I believe his exact words were “It’s only @Royal2010 tomorrow, I’ll be reet”


*Serious note- Well said.

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

I know last year it changed so that trained ranks in the RMR could seamlessly transfer to regular Royal Marines, is this still the case?

And if so what are the restrictions? Would one have to be below the maximum age limit to transfer (I’ll be 32 by the time I start RMR training)?

Is this only for enlisted ranks as well? What if I earnt a commission in the RMR, could I then transfer to regular RM as an officer?

The only route to Officer in the regular service beyond age 25 is Senior Corps Commission - usually SNCO/WO2/1. The role is G4 (support Admin Officer, Logs Officer, Adjutant, not Troop Commander).

RMR Officers Commissioned in the RMR are again G4 roles only, up to age 30. The best way to transfer as a trained Officer or Other Rank is via Full Time Reserve Service on a 12-24 month contract with the option to transfer to regular service.

The issue for reservists tends to be "currency" and skill-fade is the reason Reservists usually joined a deploying unit roughly three months before deployed so they could bring themselves up to speed with their green skills.

As to whether Reservists are readily "accepted" within a unit, it's all down to the individual, their professionalism & humility.

The thing to remember is the green beret is to reflect the criteria elements of training were satisfactorily met at the end of their initial training package - Nothing More, nothing less.

Anyone "giving it large", regular or reserve, officer of other rank in a Commando unit will pretty soon find out that there's always someone bigger, better, more experienced & infinitely wiser who is only too willing to rebrief anyone who mistakenly believes their training is completed.

 

[Chelonian]

What I take away from the comments by @Royal2010 is that 'skill fade' is arguably sometimes less of a problem than poor attitude.

I'm baffled why a RMR det would send Trained Ranks to somewhere like CTCRM to work alongside Recruits unless they were exemplary in attitude at the very least.

 

[Caversham]

Hit the dislike button as many times as you want. It won't changed what I've seen.

And it is exactly this. It takes years of FULLTIME work to achieve excellence at anything in life. Trying to become an elite amphibious soldier is no exception.

No dislike from me @Royal2010! You've hit the nail on the head!

Just because someone wears a lid that identifies them as being "elite" meant Jack Shite to me. It's "can they do the task, or if they can't, are they willing to learn", is the mantra.

I have mentioned the 1980s documentary, about ML training, "Behind The Lines" before, which in my mind is one of the best military documentaries ever recorded. Early on in the series there was a badged Australian SAS on the course. Within a very short space of time he had been binned and was on a flight back to Oz.

Says it all really.

Alan

 

[Chelonian]

It's "can they do the task, or if they can't, are they willing to learn", is the mantra.

Agreed. An RMR Trained Rank rocking up at CTCRM with a deficit of skills isn't really the problem. If he had spoken with the TT and explained he wasn't current because he didn't get the opportunity to remain up to speed with some skills I'll wager that his honesty would have been respected; his circumstances understood and that he would have returned to his det with those skills sharpened. An integrity issue such as lying about a missing part is inexcusable, embarrassing and reflects badly on everyone.

 

[Man of Steel]

1 case was out on field firing we had 2 RMR ranks attached to the troop for them to conduct their LFTT and they already wore green lids.
1 RMR lad to be fair was pretty good. He had a great attitude and listened, corrected his mistakes and gave it his all. The other one was lazy, unfit and had a shocking attitude. He also ended up losing a piece of kit which he lied about losing. It was frustrating to see reservists conduct himself in such a manner in front of our recruits to such a poor standard. I think he even tried 'sprogging' a few recruits off in the accom.

2nd case when I was a nod, again on field firing. Again a green lidded reservist attached for field firing. He struggled to put his rifle back together after cleaning it and lost the cocking handle. The troop Sgt immediately ejected him from LFTT.

There are a few other cases which I have seen personally and there are a good number incidents I have heard second hand. Alot of it down to attitude. Again, RMR ranks are still effectively "civvies". They haven't been institutionalised as we have and they are different socially and mentally and it leads to frustration.

I realise I should be probably be saying "RMR" are hoofin'. But I won't lie. Out of all the time I have worked with them only one of them seemed to be decent. Hit the dislike button as many times as you want. It won't changed what I've seen.



And it is exactly this. It takes years of FULLTIME work to achieve excellence at anything in life. Trying to become an elite amphibious soldier is no exception.

These RMR failings have given me even more motivation to change your opinion! If I ever stand before you at CTCRM maybe one day you'll change your opinion to "Out of all the time I have worked with them only two of them seemed to be decent." A man can dream right?

 

[Chelonian]

As a fully paid-up old fart I'll kick the can along Memory Lane:

Back in the 1970s a bloke in my Recruit Platoon at Depot Para had previously served as a Trained Rank in 15 PARA (SV). He quietly got on with everything but helped out lads who were clearly struggling with admin. Someone in the TT had flicked through the personal files and demanded to know why he wasn’t wearing his wings on his rig. His answer? “I didn’t want to be different from everyone else.”

He was reserved and humble and quietly demonstrated his ability without the requirement of a badge to validate it.

 

[Sniper11!]

I've already said this on another thread recently but @Chelonian you once said to me "The credit lies with the man, NOT the cap badge". Seems like an appropriate piece of advice for this thread.

 

[Bootra]

I imagine that after reading this thread some that are planning on joining the RMR may be having second thoughts because they don’t want to go through all that training to be seen as sub standard. I imagine that some RMR trained ranks aren’t feeling too pleased, and I’m sure that members of RMR training teams are feeling pretty threaders.

There can be no dispute that skill fade and lack of continuous training causes issues for RMR ranks. There are a number of problems within the organisation when it comes to trained ranks and how they are used and utilised once out of training.

But one thing to bare in mind is that the RMR also consists of a good number of ex regulars, lads that have been operational, and attached regulars. The training teams are made up of these ranks. They are professional and hold themselves to the same standards as those within the regular Corps. The last thing they allow is a sub standard recruit who cannot achieve the simple things such as putting a rifle together. The final assessments of the recruits are made by regular training teams on the RFCC. To imply that the majority of RMR ranks are lazy knackers is not only insulting to them, but also to the men who have trained them.

On the last Herrick tour that brigade undertook, 100 RMR ranks mobilised, mainly to 42 and 45. It did not take long for them to come up to speed and embed within their Company’s. These men did everything their regular counterparts did. They fought, they were wounded and maimed, and they collected the body parts of their fallen brothers.

I’m Ex regular and have been a member of RMR training teams for over a decade.

 

[Collieryboy]

I imagine that after reading this thread some that are planning on joining the RMR may be having second thoughts because they don’t want to go through all that training to be seen as sub standard. I imagine that some RMR trained ranks aren’t feeling too pleased, and I’m sure that members of RMR training teams are feeling pretty threaders.

There can be no dispute that skill fade and lack of continuous training causes issues for RMR ranks. There are a number of problems within the organisation when it comes to trained ranks and how they are used and utilised once out of training.

But one thing to bare in mind is that the RMR also consists of a good number of ex regulars, lads that have been operational, and attached regulars. The training teams are made up of these ranks. They are professional and hold themselves to the same standards as those within the regular Corps. The last thing they allow is a sub standard recruit who cannot achieve the simple things such as putting a rifle together. The final assessments of the recruits are made by regular training teams on the RFCC. To imply that the majority of RMR ranks are lazy knackers is not only insulting to them, but also to the men who have trained them.

On the last Herrick tour that brigade undertook, 100 RMR ranks mobilised, mainly to 42 and 45. It did not take long for them to come up to speed and embed within their Company’s. These men did everything their regular counterparts did. They fought, they were wounded and maimed, and they collected the body parts of their fallen brothers.

I’m Ex regular and have been a member of RMR training teams for over a decade.

It is disheartening. I don't think anyone would assume there's no difference at all. But reading this thread makes you wonder if it'd be worth putting all that effort in for months. Im not able to join the regs and have been looking at RMR and 4 para but not sure if I will. For most RMR nods passing the RFCC will be the biggest achievement in their lives. I know 4 para have a similar issue with the regs. There's even been a few threads on arrse about it lately.