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Virtual PJFT+ Trial

Discussion in 'General Royal Marines Joining Chit Chat' started by Lockerz2112, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    Ladies, Gents & others, this thread is being locked temporarily because it is generating Lots of nugatory enquiries as the rumour mill starts spreading amongst everyone in the selection process.

    Please bear with us.

    This is a trial for a select few candidates who are eligible and able to help conduct it.

    If you are selected CTC or your AFCO will contact You.... Not the other way around.

    Happy to see feedback how it's going for those selected or on completion and when/if it's rolled-out, but please don't clog-up official communications channels at this stage.

    Fingers-crossed we will know more in a few weeks.
     
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  2. monkey88

    monkey88 Member

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    I passed this vPJFT this morning. Like stated it was reitarated by the Cpl doing mine that this id a trial. These results will be passed on and looked at over the next 2 weeks when we should hear a verdict. If they go ahead with this trial then those who have completed this already have a pass.

    As far as I gathered the 4 weeks if passed will enable you to progress onto week 5 of training and isn't not classed as an additional 4 weeks. (Again don't quote me on this but this is what i picked up)
     
  3. monkey88

    monkey88 Member

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    I don't think there will every be an "easy way in'. This circuit might seem like nothing compared to sitting a prmc but there very little they can do. They can't watch us do a 3 milers or bleep test and not everyone has a pull up bar unfortunately.

    This is Marines we are talking about i highly doubt there will ever be an easy way in. Those fortunate enough to pass this (if this is too easy for you then count yourself lucky. why complain?) and this trial is a go then we will sure make up for it during those initial 4 weeks. They will be a tuff 4 weeks of phys i was told by the Cpl running my vPJVT+ this morning.

    They wont let guys not wort of the cut into RT be sure of that.
     
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  4. Advocado

    Advocado Royal Marines Commando

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    Not doing a PRMC is an easy way in, simple as that. Doing a few push ups and sit ups on a video chat does not measure cardiovascular fitness or any form of Determination.

    There will be far more people joining who do not have the physical fitness levels required, do not have the correct mindset, and who are not compatible with military life. All three problems of which are addressed at some level at PRMC.

    PRMC is your chance to look at the corps as much as it is our chance to look at you, and if it isn't all you expected to be, then you will be a detriment to all those around you when you're forced to stay for 28 days after attesting.

    I understand that it is nobody's fault this is occuring (apart from one bloke who scranned bat soup) and I understand that recruitment must go on.

    However my personal opinion is that it is foolish to attempt to continue selection/training at this stage.

    Recruit wastage will be through the roof, and we will not acquire the same calibre of bloke. Far better to just press pause, then when this virus goes away, press play again. Even if PRMC/troop intakes need to be doubled to make up the shortfall.

    Better yet, blokes will be less likely to leave the corps once the recession hits, the corps should investigate a possibility where instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on recruits wages who haven't even done a PRMC and who will inevitably have a much higher opt-out/attrition rate, invest that money in a retention scheme for the guys already in the corps!

    Again, all of that above is just my personal opinion and I fully understand the vPJFT is a trial as is not fully underway yet.
     
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  5. Private_Ryan

    Private_Ryan Member

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    Passed PJFT

    Is this a replacement for PRMC, or is it for people who are yet to do their PJFT?
     
  6. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    Im with @Advocado on this one. A set of press ups and sit ups in the living room is completely incomparable with a PRMC where you'll get smashed on bottom field and endurance course, in and out the oggin all day regardless of season, all on top of the shock of being in a military environment for the first time.

    I'll be dissapointed in the system should there be lads stealing a wage for a month having not done a PRMC then to leave. Also, you will always find some animosity towards those who haven't done the same as those that went before. Not saying that's right, but its just the way things are.

    Its way above my pay grade to suggest what should happen during this time and appreciate its a difficult decision. However, as @Advocado said, why not keep standards and double up on courses?
     
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  7. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Being Devil's Advocate here how does this square with the generations who joined before PRMC was invented? Many did a fair job in the South Atlantic by all accounts.

    The new trial is a reaction to extreme circumstances. If one thinks of CTCRM as a factory production of Trained Ranks will fall off a cliff without action.

    I suspect that inventive ways will be imagined to ensure standards are maintained.
     
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  8. monkey88

    monkey88 Member

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    This is for those who passed PJFT and RMAD. My last RMAD in Feb which was ran by a PT and small team of Marines from CTC we were required to achieve the following as minimum to to pass RMAD:

    Level 11 Vo2max
    3 Miler (10:30 min best effort)
    40 push ups
    50 Sit ups
    6 pull ups

    Those who did make this but were close were told they would re-sit RMAD again in 3 months. Those above this minimums were booked onto PRMC.

    So with regards to this trial it may be the case that the 20-30 guys picked have all made this grade to date.

    My scores were:

    vo2max - 11.8
    1.5 best effort (9.31)
    45 push ups
    85 sit ups
    7 pull ups
     
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  9. monkey88

    monkey88 Member

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    As well as this there was a 40 minute determination test in the yard which was pass or fail. You either finished it or you didn't. Burpees, sprints, push ups, carries, bear crawls etc as you can imagine.

    Like i said maybes all the guys on the trial went thru the same ARMAD conditions which as far as i know are new and it is now a requirement to pass an RMAD which previously has been optional to even attend.
     
  10. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    A very fair point. However, I think it could be argued that since those going through training in the 70s/80s there have been huge generational changes in society. Younger lads these days have grown up with technology as opposed to the outdoors, desk jobs as opposed to manual labour. (sweeping statements I appreciate).

    Point I make is that perhaps the modern lad needs exposure to the outdoors, the cold and wet etc before entering Recruit Training.

    I have no idea of wastage numbers before the old school PRC was introduced but it would be interesting to see compared to recent figures.
     
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  11. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    It would be an interesting comparison. From a Parachute Regiment perspective in the 1970s (no PRAC back then) about 50% of those who started RT successfully completed training. I wouldn't be surprised if that figure wasn't about the same today even with PRAC and the other selection hurdles. @Wings or @john lewis might know.

    Additionally, in the mid-1970s Parachute Regiment RT was only twenty-two weeks. And that included a four week Basic Parachute Course. So RT was effectively only eighteen weeks. :eek:
     
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  12. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

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    I just think it's doing a disservice to potential recruits to alter the training schedule this dramatically. I can sort of understand the PRMC issue but only if training was (relatively) unchanged. Of course training changes, mine was different in parts even from a couple of years before.

    I’m sure everyone wants to pass out knowing that they have completed all the same phases of training that every other Royal Marines Commando has-because that’s what makes us so unique. Is there another branch of the armed forces (aside the Paras) where someone who passed out in 1950 can relate to someone who passed out in 2020?
     
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  13. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    Good question. Funnily enough it wasn't until the early 1960s that the Parachute Regiment accepted direct civilian entrants. Until then the regiment only accepted Trained Ranks from other units to undergo Pre-Parachute Selection. But if memory serves even then only about 50% successfully completed what became P-Company. Those who didn't were returned to unit. A bit before my time but that's my understanding. :)
     
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  14. 03092014

    03092014 Royal Marines Commando

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    I didn't realise that.
     
  15. KingDom

    KingDom Member

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    The candidates brief says that those passing this test will do a 4 week Recruit orientation phase and then if suitable will move onto the 32 week training program. I took it that this is basically 36 weeks of training and would probably be harder than those doing a PRMC. I am in this position waiting for a call from my AFCO, I would prefer to do a PRMC, but if I have to do 4 more weeks of training, then that's what I've got to do.
     
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  16. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    By way of background:

    • The PJFT was introduced in 2003 for the RN. It was a single 2.4km flat treadmill run in under 12m 20secs.
    • The RM later adopted it and reduced the pass/fail time to 10min 30secs. It has evolved about half a dozen times since.
    • The PRMC was introduced in various forms, evolving & evaluated between 1985-1990, initially called the PRC (potential recruit course). Prior to that, it was recruit test, interview, medical, security clearance, commence recruit training.
    • In 2005, due to a fall in recruiting figures, those 'passing' PRMC with a grade C pass were given the option to retake after 3 months OR be placed on a four week PRMC Development Course (PRMDC). Those who undertook a PRMDC joined CTC, were kitted out, paid a wage and effectively trained & coached to take a PRMC on the 4th Friday. Those passing, joined Recruit Training on the Monday. No-one failed. It was universally unpopular amongst trained ranks, but 'needs must'. Phased out in 2007 as recruiting figures began to increase & costs escalate.
    Although not called the PRMDC, rather the: Recruit Orientation Phase (ROP), this new temporary scheme sounds quite similar in many respects.

    Let's not forget the reason behind this development is due to the duty of care required to the individual under the Covid-19 restrictions and precautions. It's not that the individual wishing to join has any choice or preference at this point in time. Remember, this is temporary.

    If given the offer to be trained, coached & paid a wage to be fit enough to undergo Recruit Training and become a Royal Marines Commando, my advice would be to seize the opportunity. It's a golden ticket and you'll be better informed and prepared both physically & mentally.

    Best o'luck.
     
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  17. paidtoraid220

    paidtoraid220 Member

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    Agreed, PRMC was in many ways way harder than most stuff I did in training, simply because it was such a slap in the face as to the level at which you were expected to work
     
  18. Caversham

    Caversham Former RM Commando, Moderator

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    Correct. There was no PRMC when I joined, but everyone in my Squad/Troop came from a manual labour background. I worked on building sites for a few years before joining and was not in to sport as such, with the exception of speed skating, so I certainly was not the fittest on day 1 week 1, but I had worked outside in all weathers, lifted heavy loads, worked at height etc. All at 136 lbs dripping wet, or around 60kg in today's money.

    We started with around 38 at The Depot Deal and after six weeks was increased by around another 15 former Juniors. At pass out after, I think 30 weeks, there was 18 in King's Squad. I was not one of them. The Troop that I passed out with some 8 weeks later was 11 strong, of which there was only nine originals.

    RT was similar to nowadays. Hard! We had all the same elements as now, such as gym, bottom field, 30 ft ropes, regains and exercises, which reflected the weapons and tactics of the time. The four commando tests were exactly the same as now. The big difference from back then to nowadays, is the kit was absolute crap!

    As for current day lads feeling aggrieved, I can get that. For some reason in the late 70s, CTC stopped doing the 30 miler and replaced it with an 8 day exercise, encompassing all elements of training. It started in Poole and finished in the Plymouth area using Rigid Raiders, LCs, helos and lots of yomping. The guys that passed out without doing the 30 miler, still to this day, have the piss taken out of them.

    The 30 miler was re-introduced a few years later and the big exercise still remains, although to be fair, we did do a week long exercise on Dartmoor on the first week of the commando course, plus another one at around week four. The big difference back then was if you were injured during training, you re-entered at the same point, including the Commando Course.

    Alan
     
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  19. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    Gents to keep you informed as possible, the process is being worked on and confirmation will be out soon, The 4 weeks ROP (recruit orientation phase) in planning is in "addition" to the 32 weeks training, and will have a testing phase at the end to see if you can progress into training- yet to be formalized what it will be.

    As soon as any firm news that can be pushed out it will be.!!..it,s a case of hurry up and wait (for info)..and get used to it because it happens often in the military.!!:D.
     
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  20. 1919

    1919 Member

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    I'd always assumed that it is the commando tests and the commando ethos that are the almost sacred benchmarks.

    The rest of training can change over time to meet a changing society and a changing world but the maintenance of the above is potentially what keeps the lineage and the very strong connection to the past going. I'm not a Royal (yet) so what do I know, but it's always been, partly, thinking of it like that's attracted me.