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Virtual PJFT+ Trial

Discussion in 'General Royal Marines Joining Chit Chat' started by Lockerz2112, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Advocado

    Advocado Royal Marines Commando

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    I have to disagree.

    I would argue that the entirety of Royal Marines Commando training is that benchmark standard from which we can look at our oppo next to us with the same flashes and same lid and know that he holds the same core values as us. By the time the Commando Tests come round they are duty attend, yes they are hard graft because your body is absolutely licked but by that stage your mindset is there and the only thing that will stop you is a serious injury. The unchanging thing throughout the recent history of the corps is that benchmark standards remain unchanged for years but the training teams always expect more.

    Lads can pass a BFT with a time of 11:15 but if you get over 9:30 you're below the standard expected and you will know about it.

    After 6 days in the field with minimal sleep, hundreds of miles in fatigued legs soaked through to your soul constantly in freezing temperatures you might be expected to perform below the standard on your final attack by other organisations, in the Royal Marines you're expected to fight at your best when you are physically at your worst. Those who fall below that standard will fail the exercise. It all helps breed those core values as you mentioned.

    Everyone in the corps knows that their oppo has been through the same rigours of training where they are expected to over achieve and where those values are expected, it doen't just boil down to the tests which is why things should remain unchanged.

    I think people are quick to underestimate the work that lads put in to earning their place in training. A young lad with not much life experience, or equally an older bloke who is toppers commitments such as a full time job, wife and kids, getting out there and grinding no matter the weather, alone with nobody there to motivate them working towards that goal shows such a commitment, that person is already building those qualities.

    Anyone can do a few press ups sit ups and a plank in their living room to earn a place in training. It's undeserved. I've seen the recruit wastage first hand from being on a training team. It will be far worse if these living room PJFTs begin to earn a place in training because the only lads who deserve it are those ones training day in day out, goosing themselves in the early hours of the morning and the late hours of the evening around their work/education schedule.
     
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  2. Rob20

    Rob20 Royal Marines Commando Moderator

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    Training should never change to meet society. Our society is toppers with people who can't figure out their ass from their elbow, people with a sense of entitlement greater than ever before, no respect or fear of authority, a completely unjustified arrogance. So in no way we do not need to change training to meet society. If people want to join, they have to fit our mould.

    Equally, the tests are iconic but I could think of several things I found tougher in training. The first time you cover distance with a bergen on your back, the first time you're cracking wet and dry when your trousers have froze, being thrashed relentlessly all day at fogin tor, a mudrun in full kit and then being expected to have everything spankers for a 6am kit/grot inspection. Tests are an absolute formality and believe it or not I enjoyed test week. Especially the 30 miler. I spent months looking at lads in the galley the night before heading off to Okehampton thinking how excited and nervous they must be. Genuinely, I miss those feelings of excitement and nervousness I had on test week. What the hell am I on about anyway. I've forgotten the point of this post -banghead-
     
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  3. 1919

    1919 Member

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    I might not have expressed myself that well.

    I'm not saying it's fine if training is made easier as long as the commando tests have been passed. In some respects, as has been alluded to, it's been necessary to have a PRMC for this generation, and not for the previous ones, and for training to be longer than it was 30-40 years ago, partly because the mindset required is a little rarer in society and young men aren't as used to the outdoors as they used to be.

    The concrete, cast-iron tests for me seem to be a good, easily grasped, metaphor for having the required mindset ethos to, as you say, perform at the highest standard regardless - it's a mystique that pushes you on the last attack of final ex.

    As long as the tests are there, and it's understood why they are there (it's not dead metaphor). It, should, in theory, maybe, help maintain a standard through a training programme which will ebb and flow with society.

    Or not, I dunno. But I felt like that was something that missing in the army.
     
  4. 1919

    1919 Member

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    As above, I agree with all that. I'm not saying make it easier or dumb it down. The end result should be someone who can perform in those situations. The tests are a good metaphor for that that everybody can grasp.

    Potentially, as equipment gets more complex, for instance, there might need to be little-less 70s dad screaming.

    Likewise, you might need more of the 70s style if society became a bit more masculine. Ebb and flow.

    I dunno though, maybe I'm over thinking it. It's just that seemed to be what was missing in the army. Some sacred ethos, standard that solidified what was expected and built the esprit de corps.

    It's like the debate in that real life 2000s documentary. Largely peacetime training teams complaining the recruits didn't quite have as hard as they did, yet those recruits would go on to perform in 10 years of operations.
     
  5. TheRents

    TheRents Valuable Contributor

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    But that surely is the point - They will not make it through, if they do not meet the standard.

    The fact that this will cost the Corps more money is an entirely separate issue.

    If the Corp can devise a way to keep the training pipeline operating then they need to.

    Let's face it, after years of budget constraints, just as things seemed to being getting slightly better, the proverbial is going to hit the fan. The cake is going to get a lot smaller, the NHS and healthcare sector are going to be completely off limits, so everyone else is likely to take a big hit on the fiscal side.

    The Corps need to show that they are the first to adapt, use their relatively small size to run trials and lead the way within the armed forces.

    The top brass of all the various services will be scrabbling to grab any of the action going in the 'national effort' for their own guys, so that when the finger pointing starts and the cake is 'recut', they can say they did their bit and grab the biggest mouthful!
     
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  6. Kingsman

    Kingsman Member

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    I don’t really see an issue here; there will effectively still be a PRMC, but with three and a bit weeks before that to ensure Covid-19 doesn’t spread where you will be at Lympstone doing phys the whole time and getting a taste of the military environment for longer, then RT starts as normal. They’ve not had it any easier, if anything they’ll be stuck at Lympstone for longer, granted they will be better prepared for PRMC just as someone attending Reserve Holding Troop would be.
     
  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker Admin

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    The Corps is once again leading the initiative in order to get recruits into recruit training under the constraints, precautions & duty of care due under C-19.

    The alternative is to cease recruit training at a time, C-19 aside, when the Corps is under stretch with regard trained strength which will quite easily result in the problem being solved by cutting the cloth to fit.

    The Navy has had to this for many years - whenever the government at the time is told "we have insufficient manpower to put all our warships to sea". The cheap & simple option is to reduce the number of hulls, voila! Adequate manning is achieved.

    As stated above, when the C-19 threat recedes, the catastrophic accumulated debts will result in cuts across the public sector.

    Just to cheer everyone up further, if the numbers of recruits required are reduced due to downsizing, particularly at a time when there's a highly likely shortage of jobs in many sectors, then places in recruit training may well, in future, be heavily oversubscribed.
     
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  8. Advocado

    Advocado Royal Marines Commando

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    Oh absolutely they will not make it through.

    However, the more lads who are in training (even for just an initial 4 weeks) who are considerably below the standard and who require extra tuition on near enough everything, the more time the training team are forced to spend trying to develop them to the bare minimum standard.

    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love teaching, coaching and mentoring, and I fully understand even some good lads fall below the benchmark and just need that extra bit of tuition.

    But when there are large numbers of lads, well below the standard, some of which you look at and know they'll never pass out, it's so frustrating to have to dedicate that time to them when you would rather be complementing the good lads' skillsets with extra and helping them flourish and rise from average to excellent.

    I fully understand what you're getting at, the corps has to do something in these odd times, and its good that the corps are once again trying to pioneer a way forward, however my personal opinion is that there are other ways it could have been done that would have ensured that lads were at the same standard before getting through the gate at all, because unfortunately the needs of the lads below the standard will detract away from what time and resources the training teams can deliver to those who deserve to be there.

    Not wanting this to come across as a drip! It would just be unfortunate to see good quality training time taken away from good recruits due to too many poor ones being there!

    The main point for lads on this forum to take away is, do not think that if your fitness capacity is a vPJFT scrape that you are ready for training. You need a strong cardiovascular system and you should be able to smash the vPJFT circuit out of the park with ease.

    If this is the case then that would be hoofing because that would ensure only those who are up to the standard actually start the 32 weeks training. However I am skeptical! I have a lot of oppos on the ROP teams and they are all absolutely convinced that their ROP phase has replaced the first four weeks of training and does not precede them. I was also under the impression that the 'foundation phase' was being replaced by the 'recruit orientation phase'. I suppose we will find out next week!
     
  9. The guide

    The guide Ex RAF, Ex Royal Marines, now RN.! go figure

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    It is the case a post will be following in short order outlining new process..in regards to actual 32 weeks it remains the same.!:D... the foundation is incorporated into ROP.
     
  10. Advocado

    Advocado Royal Marines Commando

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    Hoofing, disregard my previous non drippy drips! I'm sure a 4 week period before training commences would actually produce a positive result.

    My arguments before were based on my thinking that lads were banging out a few bodyweight exercises on skype then cracking straight on with 32 weeks training.

    Lads going in at this stage should consider themselves lucky, a 4 week build up with a dedicated team (I know most of the cpls and they are very experienced instructors) for the rigours of training is a gift.
     
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  11. Mattys

    Mattys Veteran Contributor

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    ‘Nice one on passing it.

    ‘I’m *text deleted* start doing this to see how I cope and get used to it.

    After you finished the last exercise (plank) do you get any rest time before you start the 2nd set or is it straight into the burpees again?
     
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  12. Griff149

    Griff149 Well-Known Member

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    It’s all back to back to back mate. No rest in between any of the sets
     
  13. monkey88

    monkey88 Member

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    The only rest you get is before press ups and sit ups as the voice at the start of the tape explains the exercise. Its the same audio as the videos on YouTube. PRMC PRESS UPS etc. Good luck!
     
  14. Biggles

    Biggles Member

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    Hi lads,

    Got my VPJFT+ letter the other day; for those of you who know this has been a long persistent journey for me. Failed at triage call, submitted a lengthy and comprehensive appeal - and was eventually successful. Despite the odds being stacked against with a 'diagnosis' of OCD aged 13....multiple private appointments with psych doctors and £400 later finally delivered the goods.

    Anyhow continued training all the while even when I was told NO so have managed to do pretty decently at the standards - maxed pull-ups and sub 8m30s 1.5 miler so must say was a tad disappointed that traditional PRMC is not going ahead due to COVID and instead we have a little bodyweight circuit. My test is next week - may ask the Cpl if I can show my pull-ups too as I have a bar *text deleted*!

    It is my understanding that once passed the VPJFT+ which is a trial, the next phase is the 4 weeks - only then can you commence RT training proper.

    Hope everyone's doing well - stay positive!
     
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  15. browner467

    browner467 Valuable Contributor

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    Good stats mate - smash vPJFT and you’ve got your foot in the door. What’s your push ups and sit ups like?
     
  16. Biggles

    Biggles Member

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    Cheers mate. Pushups - 50 and sit ups - 65. Need work! Cardio and pull-ups always been strong point. Been doing Sean Lerwill's gainers - work super well.
     
  17. KingDom

    KingDom Member

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    Bit of advice required please,I've got my vPJFT on Monday morning 0900. The candidates brief says that I should receive a Zoom invitation upon being allocated a slot, however I haven't had one. Should I be panicking or did everyone else get the zoom invite on the day of the assessment.
     
  18. Commando2912

    Commando2912 Well-Known Member

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    You get it text like 15 mins before
     
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  19. KingDom

    KingDom Member

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    Cheers mate
     
  20. Chelonian

    Chelonian Moderator

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    The keen-sighted might notice that I've changed the thread title to emphasise that VPJFT+ is only a trial and not a replacement for PRMC. :)
     
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